Eating lots of protein

[irongymnast]

What are the sideeffects when you eat more protein than you're supposed to?

Not doing it but would be interested to know.

[Edward Smith]

how much protein are you supposed to eat?

the RDA set by the government? Enough to prevent nitrogen loss? Enough so protein synthesis is more than protein breakdown?

[Donald Lee]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrit ... ation.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrit ... ge-qa.html

I didn't post any articles regarding the effects of overeating protein on health, but that can also be found on that site.

[Donald Lee]

how much protein are you supposed to eat?

the RDA set by the government? Enough to prevent nitrogen loss? Enough so protein synthesis is more than protein breakdown?

For someone strength training, 1 gram/LBM is generally sufficient. If you're juiced, maybe up to 2 grams/LBM. If you're dieting, then maybe more than 1 gram could be necessary, depending mostly on starting body fat percentage.

[Edward Smith]

Donald,

Admittedly my response was intended as sarcasm, to what i think is a pretty silly post.

I mean Irongymnast, what do you define as too much protein?

Ed

[Guest Ido Portal]

Most people who tried a higher (2 grams per pound) protein consumption and did not witness good results in areas such as hypertrophy, recovery, strength are usually suffering from one or more of these reasons:

1. Low stomach acid levels. Tested and corrected easly with HCL supplementation.

2. Not intense enough training schedule, hence no need for the extra protein.

If we are talking about most bang for your buck things to do for better recovery and compensation, this is one high on my list.

Ido.

BTW another area in which research subjects are far from optimal. Healthy and optimal are too different things all together. You can leave a reasonably healthy lifestyle without knowing your HCL levels are low, but you will always be kept away from fullfilling your full potential in recovery and though, in training.

[irongymnast]

Thanks for the insight but I meant if there's danger if someone takes in excessive amounts of proteine. Like sideeffects.

[Guest Ido Portal]

Reasearch have shown that no, there are no adverse side effects to a higher protein consumption, unless you have some kind of a kidney problem.

Ido.

[Joshua Naterman]

how much protein are you supposed to eat?

the RDA set by the government? Enough to prevent nitrogen loss? Enough so protein synthesis is more than protein breakdown?

For someone strength training, 1 gram/LBM is generally sufficient. If you're juiced, maybe up to 2 grams/LBM. If you're dieting, then maybe more than 1 gram could be necessary, depending mostly on starting body fat percentage.

If you're juiced and training the way you should be on 'roids, from what I've read, 2g/lb is a bare minumum, and will not be enough to deliver optimal results if you are adjusting your intensity to the new level of recovery steroids will allow.

I don't know if there are benefits with higher than 2/g for non-hormonally enhanced people, but I know that I do better closer to 2g than 1g. I feel the recovery go much faster and visible growth differences.

[Donald Lee]

Check out what Christian Thibs said about steroid use:

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=6880

[Joshua Naterman]

The usual concerns, which of course are quite valid. He doesn't even touch protein ratios though, which is too bad. I'm sure he has some expertise in that area.

[Jason Stein]

Interesting post.

As gymnastic training is as much about strengthening connective tissue while strengthening muscles, I found this quote very relevant. Perhaps this is why AAS use is not prevalent in gymnasts?

"First of all steroids tend to increase muscle mass a lot more than tendon strength, in fact many steroids make the tendons more brittle and fragile. So you have a muscle that is much larger and stronger, but with a weaker attachment."

It also occurs to me that my god bodybuilding sounds so incredibly boring, it's unbelievable. Muscle groups, weekly splits, upper/lower. I can see the value in auxiliary isolation exercises for sure, but only as a small part of a large process for honing performance or skill.

[irongymnast]

I have to learn more.

If you're juiced and training the way you should be on 'roids,

slizzardman, I've seen the "juice" getting mentioned quite a few times, what does it mean? It's difficult to comprehend slang talk when you're a foreigner.

It also occurs to me that my god bodybuilding sounds so incredibly boring, it's unbelievable. Muscle groups, weekly splits, upper/lower. I can see the value in auxiliary isolation exercises for sure, but only as a small part of a large process for honing performance or skill.

Thank you.

[Donald Lee]

It also occurs to me that my god bodybuilding sounds so incredibly boring, it's unbelievable. Muscle groups, weekly splits, upper/lower. I can see the value in auxiliary isolation exercises for sure, but only as a small part of a large process for honing performance or skill.

I went through that, too, but after I found out more about how natural bodybuilders train, it began to appeal to me much more. Compound lifts are still the bread and butter for naturals. Some don't even need much isolation exercises. A lot of naturals do low reps (3-5 reps) for strength and high reps for growth. They're also not always training to failure, etc. Bodybuilding for naturals can look a lot like generic strength training, especially for beginners/intermediates.

Most of the bodybuilding stuff we tend to hear about comes from the Weider influence and from drugged up folks.

[Joshua Naterman]

Jason: Even when not using a steroid which is known to weaken tendons, the rate of muscular development to tendon development is so skewed that anything more than one or two 6-8 week cycles a year would probably result in injury, given the vast time difference between tendon regeneration/growth and muscle growth. I am sure there are certain cycle schemes that would work for gymnasts as well, but I don't know if it would make much of a difference in the long run. Then again, even a small difference could determine a world championship.

As for the bodybuilding, lol... it can get tiresome. I always did the big lifts, and it was honestly fun to challenge the bar to a duel, but I will say that while in principle natural bodybuilding is not much different than what we do here(even though the goals are different), I just have more fun doing planche work, lever work etc because I like feeling like I am flying! I still love challenging the bar sometimes, but I like the challenge of weighted SLS too. I never get bored now, whereas before I sometimes would be bored with the weights. With a hybrid routine it's even more fun!

The reason I say the principles are similar is that natural bodybuilders progress slowly in strength, and rely pretty heavily on maximal strength accrual because it translates into heavier sets for their strength-endurance as well. It works the same way for us, but gymnasts don't seem to be focusing as much on strength endurance until they get to a very high level. Still, the principle of slow, steady improvements and sticking with the basic exercises that build the most strength and size(though we are less concerned with size as a group) while employing accessory work(pre-hab for us, using isolation work to build up "lagging muscles").

Iron: The "juice" is american slang for steroids.

[Jason Stein]

Slizzard,

I recall Mr. Portal at one time suggesting that one should always chase one's passive flexibility with one's active flexibility, and it seems gymnastics is similar with regards to tendon/muscle strength --- one should always strive to chase one's muscular development with connective tissue development.

I don't have much (any) experience with bodybuilding because the process itself never appealed to me, which is unlike gymnastics or yoga in which the process is actually the goal.

I have come to enjoy the prehab aspects of it, though, after figuring ways to combine upper/lower body, i.e. elbow prehab in a seated quad stretch, wall slides in a wall-supported quad-stretch, etc.

jason

[Joshua Naterman]

Yea, it does seem that way to me too! I like the ideas you put, like the wall slides in the squat stretch, that's something I never thought of!

And I have to agree that I just don't understand the idea of looking muscular without caring about strength or ability at all. That is just strange to me. I'd feel bad about myself if I couldn't do the things I can do but still looked big and muscular.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

Yes It feels like wearing that tshirts with muscles painted that got some popularity some time ago!

[Donald Lee]

Except natural bodybuilders, and even juiced bodybuilders, are actually pretty darn strong. They're usually not as strong as powerlifters or strongmen, but they're still very strong.

[Joshua Naterman]

Yea, but not strong for their size. I used to work out with the Boatswain warrant officer on my ship for fun in port, and he was a truly massive man. I mean like wtf. I could do everything he could do same weight for damn near the same reps at around 40 lbs lighter BW. But I focused exclusively on strength really, always have, so my size has been a result of that. I'm not saying they aren't strong on an absolute scale, but on the relative scale they're right at the bottom, with very few exceptions. Some bodybuilders train more like powerlifters, and [not] oddly enough they tend to be the top guys, but they're not the majority.

[irongymnast]

What's a safe number of eggs(boiled) that I can eat per day?

[Razz]

What's a safe number of eggs(boiled) that I can eat per day?

200

[Joshua Naterman]

Razz, that's not safe for anyone in the same room with him. *dons gas mask*

[irongymnast]

What's a safe number of eggs(boiled) that I can eat per day?

200

Funneh.

Serious answer anyone?

I mean safe as in safe cholesterol and protein intake.

[Joshua Naterman]

You shouldn't be concerned with protein intake unless you have known kidney issues. There is no such thing as a given number, and anyone who tells you there is is blowing smoke up your butt. Eat until it feels good.

As for dietary cholesterol, most of it doesn't stay in the system anyways, so it's not much of a concern. 3-4 egg yolks a day is what I limit myself to, but I don't worry about it much. My cholesterol levels are excellent. Keep in mind that men especially NEED cholesterol. It is the base compound that many of our steroid hormones are made from. Like testosterone. Cholesterol is not your enemy.