Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
Guest marktb68

unimpressed by strength

Recommended Posts

Joshua Naterman

I know crimson mentioned Zef's video, and I tell you what, he looked good overall! His pull ups were great, and in my opinion that's the most impressive part. THe push ups were a little heavy on the ground humping, but not terrible, at least he was using more or less full ROM. The dips were pretty good for the first 10, not bad for the next 10, and after that he wasn't going down quite so far lol! But still, much better than I expected. So for him, I will definitely say that while there is room for improvement, he's got my respect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mike.m

I used to body build but it didn't give me the same satisfaction as strength training. I didn't feel well put together and I felt that my muscles got in the way a lot.

Recently I got into a fight with someone who broke into my home and after a few punches my arms felt heavy. I didn't like that feeling and I dumped my body building routine and have gone back to what I used to do when I was training in martial arts.

Sounds like the O.P. likes to look at buff dudes. Whatever floats your boat man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spartan300

1000 pushups a day ! come on that's ridiculous, that's impossible unless they're totally compromised reps, what would be the point in doing that many anyway? i bet none of those reps was a full one and i bet they were all knocked off at lightning speed, something tells me that there's been a bit of exaggerating going on and the guy has just dreamed up some ridiculous figure to sound mega impressive, if i tried to do 1000 pushups in a day i'd end up so weak and fried i'd be hospitalised for weeks/months, still it gave me a laugh. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crimsoncross
1000 pushups a day ! come on that's ridiculous, that's impossible unless they're totally compromised reps, what would be the point in doing that many anyway? i bet none of those reps was a full one and i bet they were all knocked off at lightning speed, something tells me that there's been a bit of exaggerating going on and the guy has just dreamed up some ridiculous figure to sound mega impressive, if i tried to do 1000 pushups in a day i'd end up so weak and fried i'd be hospitalised for weeks/months, still it gave me a laugh. :lol:

That's why I posted 2 videos in which they appear doing pushups. They do regular pushups on the floor and very fast. I despise those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

1000 is a whole lot, but I hesitate to say it can't be done because like I said, I did damn near that 5 days a week, and that wasn't including the push up wars we'd have 1-2 times a week, where my buddy and I would go head to head because we were the best. He smoked me every time. I always seemed to die around 600-650 push ups in an hour, and he always got 700. Once I couldn't even roll over onto my stomach afterwards, my arms were just completely dead.

We only counted perfect reps, but they are pretty fast ones.

There's nothing wrong with fast reps as a part of your training, but they are a bad thing to rely on as the whole of your training.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gregor

1000 can be done. Especially if you have like 1-2h duration time or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crimsoncross
1000 is a whole lot, but I hesitate to say it can't be done because like I said, I did damn near that 5 days a week, and that wasn't including the push up wars we'd have 1-2 times a week, where my buddy and I would go head to head because we were the best. He smoked me every time. I always seemed to die around 600-650 push ups in an hour, and he always got 700. Once I couldn't even roll over onto my stomach afterwards, my arms were just completely dead.

We only counted perfect reps, but they are pretty fast ones.

There's nothing wrong with fast reps as a part of your training, but they are a bad thing to rely on as the whole of your training.

600-650 pushups in an hour? And people here are asking if 1000 can be done in a day? :?: :?:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

Don't forget, I was pretty blasted after that. There's no way any HeSPU would be happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crimsoncross
If you want to get big, specifically, you're going to be working on a balance between high intensity and high volume. Their strength sets never actually last that long... maybe 45 seconds. That puts them right in the TUT range for hypertrophy.

Care to elaborate on this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neal Winkler

Hypertrophy = increasing tension (high intensity increases tension) + time under tension (volume)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crimsoncross
Hypertrophy = increasing tension (high intensity increases tension) + time under tension (volume)

Yeah but, could you give me an actual example with real exercises?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

If you look at a bodybuilder's workout, and compare it to a powerlifter or olympic lifter's workout, you'll see some noticeable differences in structure.

Most bodybuilders like to move slow, and to feel the burn. They like to start moving past glycolysis and into aerobic respiration if possible. You will see extremely high volume overall, but low intensity. For example, with upper body exercises you will see sets of 8-14 for upper body work, and 15-20+ for a lot of lower body work. Many bodybuilding protocols demand a specific pace be held, like 2-4 seconds concentric, a one or two second hold, and a 2-7 second eccentric. That's one rep. So one rep could take from 5-11 seconds. They do this because this targets lower threshold fibers, and apparently these have the most growth potential, but they do not have the most power generation. This is why most bodybuilders are weak for their size compared to strength athletes. Even the ones who are really strong like Ronnie Coleman are 340 lbs at their strongest, far beyond what smaller men in the powerlifting world often weigh with similar lifts.

Powerlifters do a variety of work, but the largest difference is a focus on lower rep ranges. You'll rarely see more than 6 reps, and while some programs move through TUT cycles and speed cycles, you never really seem them move past 30s of work, because that's when you are starting to train less powerful muscle fibers moreso than your most powerful fibers. This is why you will sometimes see guys who are 5-6 and 140 lbs benching like 350+. Some of that is genetics, and the rest is them training to be strong, not to be big. They still look big and strong, but they don't look out ofproportion to their frame, which can be said for gymnasts also. By contrast, pretty much ALL pro bodybuilders look too big for their frame. You look at them and can't help but think that there is just too much meat on them for their level of strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neal Winkler

Ronnie Coleman can deadlift 800 pounds for reps.

oLo4XAtamUM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
irongymnast

... well Konstantinov does 954lb...

-NIi2TcTBgQ

Also compare the voices, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

That is monstrous. Also, exactly what I'm talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rubadub
Powerlifters do a variety of work, but the largest difference is a focus on lower rep ranges.
I remember seeing a video of Konstantinovs doing 50+pullups with a small bit of kipping, just searched now and found this video.

cgdKg7FlyOk

More interesting was his comments.

pullups with bands(mini monsters),

bands start from 35kg and in up position give about 60kg

I do ONLY kipping pullups last 25 years

127kg(280lb) BW

Here is the 55 pullups, of course this might not be indicative of his usual training, could have been a one off test.

boLl8rGhJvE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tarun Suri

They have "raw" strength, far more than gymnasts.

However gymnasts have "relative" strength, far more than powerlifters (quite a bit of bodybuilding as well).

Only difference is that gymnasts will be able to transfer that strength into a variety of skills whereas the powerlifter/bodybuilder will not, since his "raw" strength is unnecessary and will likely become a hindrance rather than an asset in being able to perform those skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nick Van Bockxmeer

JdEgJnPy4wM

man ronnie coleman is hilarious. just look at those pants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neal Winkler
They have "raw" strength, far more than gymnasts.

However gymnasts have "relative" strength, far more than powerlifters (quite a bit of bodybuilding as well).

Only difference is that gymnasts will be able to transfer that strength into a variety of skills whereas the powerlifter/bodybuilder will not, since his "raw" strength is unnecessary and will likely become a hindrance rather than an asset in being able to perform those skills.

"Raw strength" is just a colloquialism. It doesn't really mean anything. Perhaps you mean "absolute" strength.

Anyways, how do powerlifters not have good relative strength? They have better relative strength in the lower body than gymnasts do. Even many (most?) super heavyweights are going to have stronger relative bodyweight in the squat. Many gymnasts will also have lower relative strength in the deadlift than super heavy's, and the bench press. As for lighter weight classes, powerlifters will blow gymnasts out of the water in terms of relative strength on the 3 power lifts. No gymnast will be able to lift over 5 times their bodyweight in the power lifts. After training for it, yes, but not simply from doing gymnastics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

I think what the poster actually meant was that developing the lifts to the extent that these guys do would not be beneficial to a gymnast.

No one I have seen post here has ever tried to say that powerlifters or bodybuilders aren't strong or that they do not possess "real" strength. There are a lot of people who will say that bodybuilders as a group have low relative strength compared to other strength athletes.

Those of us who come from powerlifting/strength backgrounds in general tend to progress more quickly with gymnastic basic strength compared to those who do not, when measured from each individual's start date of gymnastic progressions.

What Random says is a mix of truth and misguided assumption. All competitive powerlifters except, and perhaps including, superheavyweight class where there is no upper limit have phenomenal relative strength in their lifts, equal to or greater than nearly any gymnast. There are 160 lb guys benching 400+ lbs. Hell, there are 140 guys doing that. Go check youtube for videos. That's off the chest, too, with a pause. Squats and deadlifts 3x BW or higher. We're talking about seriously extreme relative strength.

The difference is in skills and joint strength. Barbell strength trainers in general are at a disadvantage in that they do not train their connective tissue to the same degree, nor do they develop strength in low-leverage positions. Do not think for a moment that these guys wouldn't surpass us in most of the basic strength movements if we were to start from the beginning with them. Possible lack of flexibility and heavier than average lower bodies would work against them in Manna and straddle L, and heavier bodyweight means slower safe progression in the straight arm strength progressions relying on the inner elbow, but I really don't think they are at a disadvantage in any other way. Their vastly superior muscular strength means they will be advancing at the rate their tendons and nervous system will allow, as opposed to many of us who are also limited by our muscular strength. They already have massive strength, so they would destroy us with the dip, HSPU, and many pressing/pulling/MPPU progressions. Don't forget that the award for the most progress by a GB member was earned by a guy who primarily powerlifted before coming here.

We, because we practice moving our body through space, are much better at anything in that category and will learn more quickly than people who have little or no experience in that area. However, do not think that gymnasts are superior in strength. We are perhaps superior in the beginning with moving through obstacles in the real world, though I imagine that even intermediate traceurs would make mockeries of us. We strive to master low-leverage bodyweight positions. That is the gymnastic strength specialty, particularly with rings. This translates to other aspects of fitness to a greater degree than other fitness pursuits, but it does not make us stronger than them. It just means that Gymnastic Strength Training™ is perhaps the best base to build upon when one is unsure what sport(s) he/she wishes to compete in, and that we are better prepared to cope with the odd positions most athletes find themselves in during the course of competition. Other training modalities have a lot to offer us, when used properly, as is shown by specific non-gymnastic strength work done by Gregor as well as many other top competitors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tarun Suri

Hense why I put raw in quotations. I'm simply using the term to describe maximum strength potentially possible for that individual.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that by specialising in certain lifts, no matter how transferrable it is (squats, etc.), you will sacrifice potential in many other domains. I don't believe I will ever see a 1,000 squatter who can do a backflip. They've specialised to push higher numbers at the expense of what the individual can accomplish all round. This is what I meant by that phenomenal level of strength becoming a nuisance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Patrick McNamara

If one simply wants to look like a bodybuilder....hypertrophy training is a relatively easy route to go in life. I say this referring to the skill and challenge of the movements. After the skills are somewhat engrained....repetition and volume (if consistent) will build muscle over time...plain and simple.

However, I have been weight training all my life. After awhile....it becomes monotonous and boring. Typical weight training gyms offer no transferable skills from the gym to real life situations. A movement is performed with a certain amount of weight for a specific amount of reps and then repeat.

You walk out into everyday situations or athletics...there is no balance, there is chaos. You get hit from unorthodox angles, stumble over uneven ground and never know what's coming. That's why I truly feel gymnastics training "mimics" or "prepares oneself" for the world or life. I'm in my 30s and only started taking gymnastics lessons about 8 months ago, but I can honestly say it is hands down more gratifying than my largest bench press, deadlift or power clean.

The neuromuscular coordination and overall kinesthetic awareness required continually challenges me and excites me. Gymnastics involves a bit of risk taking and I think if you're one to fully embrace life...you have to give it a try. I'm starting late as hell, but here's my view

For example, I can deadlift 2x my bodyweight (I'm 175lbs.), but what drives me next? A 3x bw deadlift? Nah, just doesn't quite do much for me.... However, 8 months ago I couldn't do a front lever....now I can! The accomplishment is a ton more gratifying than simply lifting up weight from the ground.

Therefore, a big muscular physique doesn't do much to impress me. On the other hand, "functional muscle" is damn impressive. Having the patience and dedication to work on a skill that may not surface for another year or two truly separates the athletes from the narcissists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crimsoncross
Typical weight training gyms offer no transferable skills from the gym to real life situations. A movement is performed with a certain amount of weight for a specific amount of reps and then repeat.

As a previous poster said, how come all sportsmen do anything but gymnastic-specific training, they all lift weights. NFL, MLB, NBA, Tennis, etc. I'd bet my life there's not a single athlete in any of these sports who can do a FL, or a PL, or hold a free HS for more than 1 minute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
heinrich

This thread sucks :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

Please review our Privacy Policy at Privacy Policy before using the forums.