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Guest marktb68

unimpressed by strength

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Crimsoncross
If you want to be muscular and simply look good, without having any athletic abilities or good health, drop BtGB and do weight-lifting-bodybuilding. I'm sure you will get quick results. If your results are not quick enough, you could simply juice yourself up like close to 100% of all professional bodybuilders. The choice is yours.

As for me, I just went strength and the self-dominance to perform amazing feats like an iron cross and planche push-ups that comes from a long BtGB program. Muscle hypertrophy is just a side effect. :wink:

edit: I get the feeling that Terrell Owens, dez Bryant and Big Frank all have a very mesomorphic bodytype (you know, the one that is the ideal muscle-man). I feel like a lot of their gains come from their training for sure, but their bodytype allows them to easily put on BIG muscle compared to ectomorphs (lovingly called hard-gainers because they burn calories without converting them into muscle or fat) or mesomorphs (whose bodies turn most calories into fat). Note that most elite athletes are highly mesomorphic because of their genetic predisposition to muscle gains.

I'm not in it only for the looks, I'm in it for the same reasons you are, but hey, who doesn't want to make muscle too? If you were told that you would remain exactly the same as you were before you started training gymnastics-wise, would you do it?

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Crimsoncross
Thankyou, Heinrich. I was thinking that picture of Gregor doing maltese.

In those pictures he's flexing as much as he can, maximum contraction I think it is. In the video I posted he looks skinny, even when doing what he did which required him to flex.

Bartendaz, Bar-barians, etc all train for different goals than gymnasts. Actually, some of their goals are very similar to what many on BtGB probably have. Get strong, do cool stuff. Many CrossFitters have the same goals. There is a handful of CrossFitters out there who really get into the gymnastics side upon touching upon the gymnastics of CF.

So how exactly do these guys train.

If training like these guys is "so bad"
I never said it was "bad". As well, they prefer to add a bit of flair to their training moves to make it more "alive" and artistic. However, I'm a bit simple when it comes to being artistic and it explains most of my thoughts on the more artistic flair that has become parkour. Then again, I love wushu, so perhaps I'm just bipolar.

Sorry, I didn't mean bad in the sense of "harmful" bad, but in the sense of "not recommendable" or "not advisable" or whichever synonym you like of those words. Isn't that what you guys say here? That their training methods are not recommended for either strength of hypertrophy?

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Crimsoncross
Check out these to pics. I would be really and I ment really glad if I had a physique like those build with gymnastics.

male_gymnast.jpg

Yuri van Gelder: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_OMLYyLC8HTo/Si1G3 ... 5B4%5D.jpg

On the other hand. If you want to be a buff bodybuilder than bodybuild if you want to be a powerlifter, Powerlift etc etc. Its all about specificity. If you want big muscles make it a priority. you could always add some gymnastics if you like. It wont hurt to do some static exercises before you start lifting. Just my .2 cents

So why is it that not all gymnasts are really muscular but only some? What's the determining factor for this?

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cccp22
Everyone wants to look better naked. I probably wouldn't do gymnastics if I thought that it wouldn't build muscle. But since I think it can, I'll do it and get the extra benefit of the journey being more fun and fulfilling (for me) than weighted work.

The reason people with unimpressive physiques can do planche is because planche isn't hard. Get to the point where you can do back lever to planche or maltese and then tell me that your biceps aren't jacked out of your skull.

Also, you've never seen anyone on the web that can do advanced ring work and also doesn't have significant hypertrophy. Please provide evidence of this if you have.

*********Nice post. I have found that at 250 pounds bodyweight i am getting "very" significant hypertrophy from ring work and i am only a beginner.

Brandon Green

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braindx
Check out these to pics. I would be really and I ment really glad if I had a physique like those build with gymnastics.

male_gymnast.jpg

Yuri van Gelder: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_OMLYyLC8HTo/Si1G3 ... 5B4%5D.jpg

On the other hand. If you want to be a buff bodybuilder than bodybuild if you want to be a powerlifter, Powerlift etc etc. Its all about specificity. If you want big muscles make it a priority. you could always add some gymnastics if you like. It wont hurt to do some static exercises before you start lifting. Just my .2 cents

So why is it that not all gymnasts are really muscular but only some? What's the determining factor for this?

Nutrition, genetics

You throw 10 people ont he same program and you will have varying degrees of hypertrophy due to the above two factors.

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Joshua Naterman

True that. And as for Van Gelder, there was a bit of steroid use.

As for the bar-barians/bartendaz methods not being good for strength or hypertrophy, I guess it depends on what your end goal is. You'll be in above average physical condition, but they have poor form on many exercises which will limit strength gain and hypertrophy. If you notice, most of them are skinny as well. Like brain said, in the end it does come down to nutrition and genetics, along with the training program.

Because these groups do not have a formalized training system to get them all up to the ability of, say, Hannibal, I can't say that their training is as well structured or effective as BtGB. Here you have a basic progression for everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. You are clearly shown how to gain strength to the point where people raise their sunglasses and rub their eyes just to make sure they are really seeing what they think they are seeing. There is nothing intrinsically WRONG with the training of these groups, it's just that they do not have the knowledge to take things beyond an intermediate level. I haven't seen ANY of them do a proper front lever except for Hannibal. I honestly don't think they can, because if you watch the videos where RIck (white dude from American Ninja Competition) they freak out over the planche and lever training.

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Erich Lin

+1 on braindx. You are not only comparing two different training regimen (body building vs gymnastics), but two different people. And you are not only comparing pictures of buff dudes, but pictures of them doing different things. Tell the gymnasts to get ready for a bodybuilding competition by decreasing water retention (or whatever it is that bodybuilders do to make them look more ripped), oil themselves up, go tanning, and step into a spotlight that is meant to make them look bigger, and BOOM, you have a pretty buff gymnast that looked so much less impressive before.

Put the same bodybuilder (who may be genetically predisposed to build muscle) on gymnastics and perhaps he will have the same physique.

Too many variables are being compared here.

Speaking from personal experience, gymnastics is superior for hypertrophy for upper body development.

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JL
True that. And as for Van Gelder, there was a bit of steroid use.

As for the bar-barians/bartendaz methods not being good for strength or hypertrophy, I guess it depends on what your end goal is. You'll be in above average physical condition, but they have poor form on many exercises which will limit strength gain and hypertrophy. If you notice, most of them are skinny as well. Like brain said, in the end it does come down to nutrition and genetics, along with the training program.

Because these groups do not have a formalized training system to get them all up to the ability of, say, Hannibal, I can't say that their training is as well structured or effective as BtGB. Here you have a basic progression for everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. You are clearly shown how to gain strength to the point where people raise their sunglasses and rub their eyes just to make sure they are really seeing what they think they are seeing. There is nothing intrinsically WRONG with the training of these groups, it's just that they do not have the knowledge to take things beyond an intermediate level. I haven't seen ANY of them do a proper front lever except for Hannibal. I honestly don't think they can, because if you watch the videos where RIck (white dude from American Ninja Competition) they freak out over the planche and lever training.

I have seen a few good front levers out of that pullup scene, as you said, Hannibal's are the best. A few others I recall are Zef, and the guy they call Beast. Guy from Bartendaz, Giant, a think can do a pretty good one. Check Marcusbondi, from Australia, he has some good videos with good front lever stuff. Most of those guys are pull strength oriented though. As you know, not much much pressing ability. When it comes to pressing movements (Handstand, planche, etc.), they are way outclassed. I think I saw Hitman do a straddle planche, once. I would need to revisit that.

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JL

That's the stuff!

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Crimsoncross
So why is it that not all gymnasts are really muscular but only some? What's the determining factor for this?

Nutrition, genetics

So that's it then? I mean they all follow the exact kind of training right?

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Crimsoncross
True that. And as for Van Gelder, there was a bit of steroid use.

As for the bar-barians/bartendaz methods not being good for strength or hypertrophy, I guess it depends on what your end goal is. You'll be in above average physical condition, but they have poor form on many exercises which will limit strength gain and hypertrophy. If you notice, most of them are skinny as well. Like brain said, in the end it does come down to nutrition and genetics, along with the training program.

Because these groups do not have a formalized training system to get them all up to the ability of, say, Hannibal, I can't say that their training is as well structured or effective as BtGB. Here you have a basic progression for everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. You are clearly shown how to gain strength to the point where people raise their sunglasses and rub their eyes just to make sure they are really seeing what they think they are seeing. There is nothing intrinsically WRONG with the training of these groups, it's just that they do not have the knowledge to take things beyond an intermediate level. I haven't seen ANY of them do a proper front lever except for Hannibal. I honestly don't think they can, because if you watch the videos where RIck (white dude from American Ninja Competition) they freak out over the planche and lever training.

Yes, some of them have bad/incorrect form/technique on some exercises. I don't know each and every one of them, but most of whom I've seen aren't skinny. I've seen Jay, Zef, Beast, Hannibal, Hitman, and some others. They are all muscular, with probably Zef having a little less than the others. The one that really is skinny which is a part of their group is "slik rick" (hence that name I presume).

What I don't like about these guys is that they go around saying "I created this move!" when such a "new move" was already being done before any of them was even born. Hitman says he "created" getting into a handstand on parallel bars. That's mind-boggling. He also says he created the tiger-bend HSPU. (...)

Hannibal doesn't seem to brag much but I have seen him say that all that he does are "his moves", that he doesn't copy anyone else's. An end has to be put to this nonsense.

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Crimsoncross
They do lots of volume with a lot of TimeUnderTension.

So doing a lot of this TimeUnderTension is good for hypertrophy?

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Blairbob

Yep.

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Razz

Sorry guys I have to comment here, this post is ridicoulous. Just look into science of training+hypertrophy and you will see that its not so much about whether you use a pair of rings or weights to achieve hypertrophy.

Crimsoncross if Gregor has nothing, what have you got? oh and find me a 168 cm guy with 42 cm arms please.

Mark.. you found the secret congratulations.

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braindx
So why is it that not all gymnasts are really muscular but only some? What's the determining factor for this?

Nutrition, genetics

So that's it then? I mean they all follow the exact kind of training right?

No.

Each country, each program, each coach has different philosophies on training... and nutrition as well.

The difference here is that you are getting some of the better programming out there for pure strength. Translates well to hypertrophy IF allowed by nutrition and MAY be sped up depending on genetics.

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Nick Van Bockxmeer
as for Van Gelder, there was a bit of steroid use

may I ask where you heard this

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Neal Winkler

Wikipedia.

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Gregor

He took a heroin.

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Neal Winkler

Oh yeah, wiki says he took cocaine, not the juice.

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Nick Van Bockxmeer

yes im aware of him testing positive to cocaine. This is recreational use not performance enhancing as slizzardman suggested.

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rubadub
Has anyone seen dez Bryant's physique? do you think he can do a planche? His physique is amazing. Most of the people I have found who can do a planche and ring work(on the web) have mediocre physiques. I say who cares. You look normal to me but can do this. Who cares.
They care. Your post would be the equivalent of going onto a bodybuilding forum and saying, "ah yeah you have big 22inch arms, but can you do a handstand, who cares what you look like".
Would you rather look like T.O(Terrrell Owens) or do planche pushups and look normal?
I jokingly asked a amatuer powerlifter a similar question and he went with Woody Allens body with great strength, since he would be number 1 in his sport.

I am sure many people start out training to look better and can find they are good at the particular sport and so change priorities. I have seen pictures of a very fat powerlifter who had an injury and dieted right down and had an amazing physique, but fat is said to aid some lifters and so some get purposely fat, I think when he recovered he purposely overate again and got fat. All the first post shows is your obsession with looks, and the presumption others should be obsessed too. Of course many see a physique as a nice side effect but many would not care in the slightest, you only have to look at another sport to see some people are not overly concerned -sumo wrestlers.

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Crimsoncross
Crimsoncross if Gregor has nothing, what have you got?

I just said he looked skinny when he's not flexing compared to other gymnasts/people. If you don't have much muscle you look like you have when doing an exercise that requires a lot of contraction.

Compare him to Encho Keryazov, Hitman, Hannibal, Marian Dragulescu, etc.

And what's this "if he doesn't have anything what do YOU have" thing? Whether I'm muscular or not is not the issue. I just started training like this and I have been barely doing anything. I'll be sure to post my picture when I've had at least 4 months of training, you can count on that.

oh and find me a 168 cm guy with 42 cm arms please

Dragulescu is 163cm, even lower than what you requested:

imagege7.th.jpg

4057972641_a86bcfbd26_o.jpg

md01atc7.jpg

I don't know but those look like 42cm arms or more.

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Gregor

Dragulescu is skinier then me :wink:

Trust me, I would know!! And how could be a flor specialist, bigger then ring specialist :wink:

And how you can flex with sraight arms :mrgreen: or in L-seat :mrgreen::mrgreen:

Crimsoncross, I have a suggestion for you :arrow: don't talk what you don't know and you have not an experience. :wink:

12633_1267919732712_1071387021_840035_4099065_n.jpg

This is snapshot of a swing, where the muscles can't be on any contraction.

And one more thing let not compeete who has a bigger *****.... Let's go on topic.

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Crimsoncross

He's skinnier than you? Is the video I posted of you very old or something then?

I think I misused the word "flex" here...I didn't mean flex in the sense of doing a BB pose in which you show your biceps or similar things, I just meant contracting the muscles. When you do an l-sit or a straight arm hold all your muscles are contracting, as opposed to being standing on the ground doing nothing.

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