From Free Weights to Bodyweight

[XFatMan]

I’m forty years old and have been training with free weights for nearly two years. Last week, I came across the article Building an Olympic Body through Bodyweight Conditioning. The skill and power required to do a simple thing like the Frog Stand has impressed me. My weakness when it comes to pull ups, chin ups, and chest dips is almost frightening. What I can do right now is:

Frog Stand for 40 seconds uninterrupted

5 sets of 2 pull ups :oops:

5 sets of 5 dips

5 sets of 2 chin ups :oops:

8 rounds of 3 minutes jump rope @ 140 rpm or faster, 1 minute rest intervals

I don’t even think my form on the pull ups / chin ups is that great, but that’s something I can and will work on. I train in the morning on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. On training days, I do my jump rope sessions in the afternoon. On non-training days, I do them in the morning. I only rest from everything on Sundays.

After my first workout last Monday, I got some mad, mad DOMS in my chest, shoulders, back, biceps, and triceps. That’s certainly another sign that Bench Presses, Deadlifts, and Squats are probably not perfect substitutes for bodyweight exercises. I have always found free weights a little boring, and this gymnastics stuff is really great – challenging, motivating, and very interesting. But let me come to my question …

Does my workout make sense or should I change something? My goal is strength and definition, and as I said before, I’m a complete beginner with bodyweight and gymnastics exercises.

[George Launchbury]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I'm glad you have found a mode of exercise that you can be excited about. Enjoying what you do makes all the difference in sticking to it and making gains. Take heart, though ...many people starting out with bodyweight can't do chins/dips at all!!

A couple of pre-answer questions:

> What is your max effort in those exercises?

> Is there a reason you only do ropework for metcon?

> Any reason why no legs or core?

> Are you able to support yourself in wall handstand (be careful trying)?

Regards,

George.

[XFatMan]

Thanks, George. I appreciate your help.

What is your max effort in those exercises?

These values are calculated from my 5 RM, so I’m pretty sure that real maxes are a bit higher:

Bench Press 90 Kg / 200 lbs

Squat 110 Kg / 240 lbs

Deadlift 130 Kg / 286 lbs

Military Overhead Press 52 Kg / 114 lbs

Bodyweight 70 Kg / 154 lbs

Is there a reason you only do ropework for metcon?

Yes, I find jumping rope much more interesting than running, walking, and such stuff. Besides, it burns a good amount of calories. Since I’m a bit chubby with over 16% body fat, I want to burn as many calories as I can in the short time I have for workouts. But of course, I’m open to suggestions, additional cardio work, changes, etc, etc.

Any reason why no legs or core?

Leg work is actually my favorite. I always hated the Bench Press but loved the Squat and Deadlift. I’m not doing any leg work because I haven’t found an exercise for that yet. But since you ask, could you suggest some?

I have never done any direct works for the abs, but those pull ups and chin ups are giving me some pretty sore abs. And when the initial “point of painâ€

[Danny]

Hi XFatMan!

I'm far from an expert on Gymnastics, but I'd like to reply on some things in your post.

At first I'm pretty sure you can do an handstand against the wall and just hold that for an amount of time. Even if it's only for some seconds. I don't know what my 1RM for the Overhead Press is, but I am not so strong at Military Presses etc, but I can hold a Handstand against wall for over 60 seconds. The overhead press and Handstand are 2 things that can't be compared in my opinion..

For leg work, the first and probably one of the only hard bodyweight exercises I know for leg work are One-leg Squats/Pistols, you can find pretty much about that exercise on the forum. Some other leg exercises, for explosiveness are Box Jumps etc etc.

Again, I am also a rookie on gymnastics, but I think there might be some things true in my story. :wink:

Greets, Danny.

[XFatMan]

Thanks, Danny. Perhaps holding a handstand against a wall isn’t the big problem, but I need to get there first. I mean, I can’t even do a handstand! Sad, sad, sad, isn’t it? I will start working on this, but I want to do it alone without anybody helping me into the position or whatever.

[George Launchbury]

Hi XFatMan,

Firstly, what Danny said is on the money ...handstands are very different from Military press. You are essentially supporting your weight on locked arms. Still be careful, though, as it's a little bit weird being upside down at first. Just spend some time kicking up by a wall, a little higher at a time, until you gradually get high enough to stay there. If you can press 3/4 bodyweight, you will probably be able to do partial HSPU as well.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on which numbers I was after; what are your best counts for pull-ups, dips and frog-stand? For the frog-stand, make sure you check your hips are level with your shoulders (use a friend with a camera, ideally) as if your hips are a little high or low it can be quite a bit easier. These numbers will give us a handle on what kind of set/rep schemes to go with.

Good call on leaving the HLRs for a while. It sounds like your core is getting enough work for the moment. As for legs, since you enjoyed them do you want to simply keep going with the squats and deadlifts? If not, as Danny also suggested you can go for single-legged (pistol) squats, and some bodyweight hamstring curls or sprinting?

As for burning fat, the thing that will affect that most is nutrition - most people need to reduce the amount of carbs, increase the good fats, and get better quality protein (the amount is often not too far out). If you are not too familiar with the concept, check some books/sites on Paleo nutrition. Controlling your insulin will enable you to improve your body composition, as well as protecting yourself from a whole range of health problems later in life.

To speed up the fat burning process, you can increase your body's ability to burn fuel by adding to your muscle mass (by getting stronger), and by doing some metcon/interval training. Skipping would come under this banner. The calories you use during the exercise won't make much of a difference, but the continued burning of fat for a number of hours following an intense effort will. Other good examples are sprints with rest between, including running, swimming and on the rowing machine. You could also think about Crossfit style metcon workouts ...but be sure to factor in the additional volume into your recovery requirements.

Cheers,

George.

[XFatMan]

I'm pretty impressed by the effort people make here to respond. Thanks for taking the time.

I have never tried how many pull ups, dips, and chin ups I can possibly do. But you're right, I should have done that right at the beginning. I just thought it would be less painful to start slowly. That's something I will do next Wednesday.

My frog stand reached 60 seconds today. Chances are that I'm not doing it right because I have been at it for less than a week. I'll check that, too.

I'd like to try bodyweight exercises for my legs, too. In fact, I'd like to get away from free weights altogether.

The biggest problem is nutrition. I started in June 2006 weighing 115.9 Kg / 255.8 lbs at 42.2% body fat. I've made my way down to currently 70 Kg / 154 lbs at 16.6% body fat. My ultimate goal is to hit 10%. I just started by cutting out most if not all junk food so that everything I eat is pretty clean. The difficult thing is to eat more protein and fat because most foods are mostly carbohydrates. So what I do is to prefer protein and fat whenever possible and control calories in vs. calories out. I sure will read up on the diet you mentioned, but of course, any other suggestion is welcome.

[Edit]I just had my frog stand checked. My hips were far too high, which obviously made 60 seconds possible. I'm now back to 10 seconds, but with the desired form. Thanks for the pointer.[/Edit]

[George Launchbury]

Ha ha ...guess how I know what a big diference it makes if the hips are high? :roll:

Regards handstands, my wife can barely press my Oly bar (20kg) at ...errr, it occurs to me I had better not publish her bodyweight. I won't be disclosing her age, either. Suffice to say she definitely weighs more than twice the bar. Anyways, my point is she had no problem kicking up into her first wall handstand and holding it for around 10-15 seconds. She is a little gung-ho.

I felt very much the same as you, and would have had no problems with my first handstand (once I got the courage up) ...if I hadn't accidentally done it opposite a mirror. My poor brain clocked myself appearing to be up the right way, when everything else was telling me I was upside down, and somehow stuck to the ceiling. I felt pretty weird, and had to abort mission immediately!! :shock:

They were fine after that.

Congrats on the excellent progress you have made with body comp changes. That's pretty impressive (I get your username now), and a great example to anyone who's finding it hard work. Sounds like what you've been doing is pretty much correct anyway, although you will probably find some good information in terms of health asides from weight-loss.

Out of curiosity, has the weight-loss slowed down the more you lost? That is what I have found to be the case. In fact, when plotted against time, the line kind of took on a wave-like series of mini-plateaus following a general downward trend. I don't know if that was physiological, or from renewed effort to eat clean after reaslising gains were slowing (or stopped). Possibly both.

Oh, yes. In terms of getting a handle on your best effort for pull-ups/dips - it would give a better idea of what sort of set/rep scheme to start out with for best gains, and reduced risk of over-training.

If you are trying to get your numbers up, I would say that a set/rep scheme with constant amounts might not be best for increasing strength endurance. For example: 5x2 (10 total volume) might be too easy on the first few sets, and too hard at the end. You might be better with: 4,3,2,1 (still 10 total volume) and reduce the rest time between sets over a few weeks. Then add one rep to each, reset the rest intervals, and taper down again, say: 5,4,3,2 (total volume 13). Others may have some input on this, so don't take my word as gospel. Go with whatever suits you best.

To clarify; 5x3, 5x5, etc are pretty good protocols for increasing strength (if you were adding weight to your pull-ups/dips) as you ensure there is always adequate rest to finish your sets. Getting stronger is a different ball game to increasing strength-endurance. However, if you become strong enough to do pull-ups/dips at BW+20kg, you will find that you can do a lot more at BW only, as it is then a lower % of your max, in the same way as you could do more now on an assistance machine.

Cheers,

George.

[XFatMan]

Out of curiosity, has the weight-loss slowed down the more you lost? That is what I have found to be the case. In fact, when plotted against time, the line kind of took on a wave-like series of mini-plateaus following a general downward trend. I don't know if that was physiological, or from renewed effort to eat clean after reaslising gains were slowing (or stopped). Possibly both.

Yes, but that’s natural. At over 116 Kg / 255 lbs, you can lose impressive amounts of weight / fat per week. There were weeks where I lost 10 Kg / 22 lbs. Right now, I’m happy if I can lose nearly a pound per week.

Plateaus only come up when I eat too little. For instance, if I go down to 10 calories per pound of bodyweight, fat loss will halt within two days. I have observed that increasing cardio work and increasing calorie intake is much better than harsh calorie restriction. For this reason, I try to up or intensify my cardio each week so I can eat more. I’m currently eating around 13.5 calories per pound of bodyweight. For many dieters, this is enough to gain weight, but I’m losing more fat than if I were eating 10 or 11 calories per pound of bodyweight with the same amount of cardio work.

If you are trying to get your numbers up, I would say that a set/rep scheme with constant amounts might not be best for increasing strength endurance. For example: 5x2 (10 total volume) might be too easy on the first few sets, and too hard at the end. You might be better with: 4,3,2,1 (still 10 total volume) and reduce the rest time between sets over a few weeks. Then add one rep to each, reset the rest intervals, and taper down again, say: 5,4,3,2 (total volume 13). Others may have some input on this, so don't take my word as gospel. Go with whatever suits you best.

That makes absolute sense to me. I will go with that rep / set scheme as it sounds much better than what I’m doing. Thanks a lot for the hints.

[George Launchbury]

You're welcome, glad to be of some assistance.

Thanks for the additional insight into your experiences - very interesting.

Cheers,

George.