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Coach Sommer

Manna - An Advanced Static Strength Element

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Joshua Slocum

It's the same muscles in both positions. You would gain no benefit from working the tucked position and the straddled simultaneously. 

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trolololo

Well yes the same muscles but at different angles it puts the strain on different muscle fibers or so I believe(the whole bent vs straight arm strenght having no carryovers led me to this) Anyway I'm just gonna give it a go and see in a few months. Still would like to know if I should be doing the elevating with fingers backwards or that should be for when I start really attempting the manna.
plus the tuck could be working on flexibility while the straddle focuses on strenght

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Joshua Slocum

You will not gain flexibility by attempting to press in a tuck. If you want to gain flexibility, you need to do exercises specifically meant for flexibility. This means long, deep static stretches in the pancake and German hang positions, supplemented with mobility work for the same ROM. 

 

Fingers should be backwards for all elements in the progression. 

 

And again, though it's your decision, I'd advice against wasting time working the tucked position. If there were benefits to be had from working the tuck, it would have been in the original article. 

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Keilani Gutierrez

I'm already working L-sits on a three day basis (Monday/Wednesday/Friday) 

 

my question is if I should cycle between MSH and L-sit or work them in pairs the same day?

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Joshua Slocum

If you're still working on the L-sit you probably won't be able to do productive work on the middle split hold. It's essentially a harder variation of the L-sit. 

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Nic Branson

Some good things in this thread. As said above, get your L-Sit up to par. Work on your flexibility and rev. planks. Make sure you can press your shoulders back comfortably and with strenght. Manna is not a glorified V-up, don't think you will simply be able to rely on that to get into position.

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Mats Trane

 Make sure you can press your shoulders back comfortably and with strenght. 

 

I started to work towards Manna after the Helsinki Seminar with the MSH bent legs. I filmed myself a week ago and noticed that I´m NOT keeping my shoulders back. So I realy started to work on this, its definetly a weak link of mine. I can do reverse plank with no problem. Maybe Ag- Walks would help? Any thoughts?

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Nic Branson

Ag walks could help some but let me ask you something. When you do the MSH are you trying to lift your legs or focusing on keeping them level with the hips and actively pressing your hips forward away from your hands?

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Mats Trane

I'm doing the MSH bent legs on p-bars trying to push my glutes away from hands.

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Daniel Burnham

I have found doing msh on p-bars is much easier than floor. Is this an acceptable method of training them?

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Nic Branson

Keep that focus, really try and extend. This step takes awhile. Use a camera and take a side shot so you can see the separation from your hands and if your shoulders are as back as you think they are. Some subtle things happening here, once you straighten your legs you'll feel a big difference also.

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Nic Branson

Bent leg you basically have to. Do you want a manna on bars or on the floor? You might start with bars until you get better at them and transition down if floor is your goal. Similar to some people and L-sits as they get a feel for proper body position.

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Nic Branson

I also neglected to ask if you have a solid straddle L already. If not, get one.

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Daniel Burnham

I want it on the floor. it seems different than L. With l it was a matter of compression that didn't let me do it on floor. I just find it easier to press forward with bars. Probably due to basically creating two leverage points (front and back of hand).

And Idk if you were taking to me but yea I have a solid straddle L. At least 30 sec.

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Mats Trane

Thanks Nic!

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Nic Branson

Both you need the straddle L so was universal. It is different on the floor, the comparison to L was just of  how some people start on bars and move is all. Your hands are an anchor and balance point, you need to be moving from your shoulders. Have you tried thumbs forward for this part?

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Nic Branson

Thanks Nic!

Anytime

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Keilani Gutierrez

so I should scale back to pair what static fsp with the l-sit? I wanted to do it going along the line of doing retraction work. what would you suggest?

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Keilani Gutierrez

oh beat me to it :P I'll work on my L-sit. Coach, what kind of preliminary work do you do with your beginning athletes before working on the manna? obviously working on ab compression with L-sits and then using the beginning progressions to develop the hip lifting element that mannas require? is this correct?

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Coach Sommer

"... Coach, what kind of preliminary work do you do with your beginning athletes before working on the manna? ..."

 

Lots.  Luckily for you it is all detailed in the upcoming release.   :)

 

Basically if you cannot do an L-sit you will be unable to do a straddle L, if you are unable to do a straddle L you will be unable to do a manna.  And of course there is a great of simultaneous specific mobility work required.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Keilani Gutierrez

"... Coach, what kind of preliminary work do you do with your beginning athletes before working on the manna? ..."

 

Lots.  Luckily for you it is all detailed in the upcoming release.   :)

 

Basically if you cannot do an L-sit you will be unable to do a straddle L, if you are unable to do a straddle L you will be unable to do a manna.  And of course there is a great of simultaneous specific mobility work required.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

....this is going to be a great year.  

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Erik Sjolin

Is there any specific elbow prep for the manna? A couple weeks ago I felt a twinge in the back of my elbow, so I let it heal and started doing some tricep specific work. Oddly enough it wasn't in the "pit" of the elbow where I expected weakness, so it surprised me a bit. Is there more I can be doing to protect my arms?

 

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Joshua Naterman

I don't know the official stance on this, but Daniel Burnham was telling me that he found that high rep push ups is helping him more than anything else. I think that french press would also be good, but loaded elbow extension that focuses mostly on the triceps is really the key part of both exercises, so as long as you fit that bill there should be quite a number of options.

 

I'm not quite sure that HSPU variants will be as effective for this particular application.

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Markyz

Does anyone know the average amount of time to have the manna (or close to it)? I'm hoping learning this skill will give strength for circles and high flairs

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Daniel Burnham

I would say around 2-3 years depending on where you start.  It is hard skill.  I would say circles are much easier.  Flairs probably are too though I haven't gotten them yet.  Im not actually aware of too many people who have gotten manna as an adult, though I suspect this will change with the release of the foundation series.

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