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Coach Sommer

Manna - An Advanced Static Strength Element

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rambo5501
A high manna is out of reach of all but a very few athletes in the entire world. Ironically, the athlete in the video is also capable of a high manna.

I tend to train mannas by blocks of time rather than for a particular static hold; by that I mean that my athletes will focus on the movement for 5-10 minutes, two to three times a week.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Hey, one question..If that is true..Why are alot of bboys able to do them?(not most of them but a decent amount)..but what i notice is that they do them with legs open.

I don't want to turn this into a bboy and gymnastic battle like another thread a not that while ago. But enlighten me and show me a picture of a bboy doing a manna. I think I have seen very few that can do a v-sit, but a manna?

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JoeSimo

I've seen bboys sort kick their legs up into a manna position. But, then they just fall right back down. So, not the same thing by far.

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G00SE

I think that bboy move is called a reverse hallowback-a regular hallowback being a backbend position with feet off of the ground.

Bboys usually go into it from a handstand and then kinda shift their body position into that particular position- it usually isnt anywhere near as technical or raised into slowly the way gymnasts do. Bboys are strong, no doubt, however gymnasts have to do their skills in a precise manner since gymnasts have to adhere to a code that says there is an exact way to do it or lose points-while bboys do not have to worry so much about technical aspects of their performance-its much more about artistic style and flow

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IvanPS

Well some bboys can do a manna type thing and I'm not thinking of a inverse hollowback ( an inverse hollowback can be seen at around 0:54).

Check around 1:08 for the manna thing.

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George Launchbury

Gymnasts vs BBoys

Please note that this will not escalate into another discussion on whether BBoys or Gymnasts are best. They are different, end of story. They are not trying to achieve the same thing, nor do I imagine they would wish to. This is primarily a Gymnastic forum, and pretty much everything should be considered with that in mind. Similar movements/positions are just that - Similar. Please keep future discussion regarding BBoys' skills/abilities relevant to the topic in hand, and accurate, otherwise we engage in pointless discussion.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Daster,

If you simply wanted to discuss the differences between a manna and the similar BBoy movement, then a new thread should have been started clearly outlining this. Questioning the validity of Coach's statement in that way was pretty likely to spark an argument. I assume this was not your intention, of course, so don't worry about it - just give it a little more thought next time.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Having seem the manna-like movement in the link IvanPS posted, It might be interesting to note the differences. Firstly there is no press into position, the BBoy throws himself up. Pretty cool, but definitely requiring less strength. Once up, the wide straddle allows him to get a great deal of his legs' mass behind his hands, after which point it appears to be mostly a case of balancing.

Does it require excellent dynamic flexibility? High levels of strength and balance? Has it taken a lot of time, effort and dedication to achieve? Is it exciting to watch? YES on all counts.

Is it a Manna? No.

Regards,

George.

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Spanyard

Im a bboy, and as the discussion that im reading touchs a lil bit my culture, I just want to say that there is no way on comparing bboy and gymnastics. Bboying or breaking is a DANCE, and gymnastics is a SPORT. It is true that bboying has a lot of athletic activitie, thats why I use this website, and let me say that I improve a lot on certain ways of breaking since I use some of Coach Sommer's exercises, but is like if I compare tango with scoccer, you get me? :D

Talking about the manna, I agree with George. The move that is shown on the vid is WAY EASIER than a manna, I got plenty of friends that can do it but no way on pressing up on a manna.

And by the way, the move at 0:54 is not a hollowback, it is an airchair variation :P

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IvanPS
Im a bboy, and as the discussion that im reading touchs a lil bit my culture, I just want to say that there is no way on comparing bboy and gymnastics. Bboying or breaking is a DANCE, and gymnastics is a SPORT. It is true that bboying has a lot of athletic activitie, thats why I use this website, and let me say that I improve a lot on certain ways of breaking since I use some of Coach Sommer's exercises, but is like if I compare tango with scoccer, you get me? :D

Talking about the manna, I agree with George. The move that is shown on the vid is WAY EASIER than a manna, I got plenty of friends that can do it but no way on pressing up on a manna.

And by the way, the move at 0:54 is not a hollowback, it is an airchair variation :P

oops sorry :oops: i meant at 0:58

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Daster

i did not mean somethinga bout gymanstics vs bboy..i just added that comment couse they seamed "kinda" similar..well the names are very diffrent..especially for me, couse in latin america moves have difrent names.

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hans plar

Hey

I asked about the Manna on youtube. To repeat, I would like to know, what is the significance of lifting the butt and the legs at the same time when training for the Manna, and could you elaborate on why "A short cut taken here will result in the ultimate failure of your journey to acquire a manna." ?

Thank you

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Coach Sommer

Unless you focus on pressing the hips and legs forward, you will fail to develop the necessary back and tricep strength necessary to press upward into the manna.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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StevenL

Coach, you mentioned the importance of the width of the legs while working the middle split hold. Other than following this progression consistently, are there any other exercises/stretches you could recommend that would be beneficial to widening the legs? Thank you for any help and for all of your past help, as well.

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Richard Duelley

Over the past few months I have developed a decent MSH but after videotaping myself I noticed that I lean back, that is my shoulders were behind my hands. Its not to drastic but it was the first thing I noticed when watching myself. Should I be striving to keep my shoulder plane as close to the plane of my hands as possible?

Thanks

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matthew.percussion
Over the past few months I have developed a decent MSH but after videotaping myself I noticed that I lean back, that is my shoulders were behind my hands. Its not to drastic but it was the first thing I noticed when watching myself. Should I be striving to keep my shoulder plane as close to the plane of my hands as possible?

Thanks

Watch the video in the original post. He holds the MSH for a second in the beginning. With quite a large backward lean. If you didn't lean back but pushed your hips forward you would be overbalanced. Simple physics. =]

Good luck on your Manna training!

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Coach Sommer

Focusing on pressing the hips forward as far as possible in front of the hands is the primary concern.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Richard Duelley

Thanks, I will just focus on getting my hips even further from my arms. 8)

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Guest CircusMonkey

hi Coach!

I was wondering how much time should be spent on Manna a week for somebody really going for it?

With a manna as a primary objective, how much time a week? And most effectively every day or with rest periods?

And also: Does it help to train the progression on different levels, I as an example have been training with different sized balls to hold and actively stretch my arms in different angels (between v-sit and manna), as in putting the ball behind me as a support and rolling up to a high pike. I don't know if this will help me a lot but i feel like it should be a good thing to do after practicing the Middle split hold to really work it?

Is specified additional strength recommended for non-gymnasts to speed up the process?

I want to do this!!!

Thanks alot!

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Coach Sommer

In my experience, very good results with Manna preparation can be obtained by training 3-4 days a week for 10 minutes or so at a time.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Sternford

In the book it says that most people fail at the manna because they don't "spend the requisite amount of time developing the HMSH"

My first question is: is HMSH is a typo of "middle split hold horizontal" or does it stands for something else (high middle split hold?)

My second question is how long is the requisite amount.

When should you start going for the manna, or is it more like the middle split hold horizontal blends into the manna as you just try to push your hips out more and more?

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matthew.percussion

Horizontal Middle Split Hold is HMSH if I am not mistaken. The requisite time is basically how long it takes you personally to develop the skill.

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Sternford
Horizontal Middle Split Hold is HMSH if I am not mistaken. The requisite time is basically how long it takes you personally to develop the skill.

Ah, thanks for that clarification on the acronym. On the second part though I mean when do I know I have developed the skill enough? I can hold a horizontal middle split hold for at least five seconds (I know that's not nearly enough) but I do not know at what point I should try to move on

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Blairbob

Went to a clinic on congress about jam and takimoto. would manna be a good progression for those skills because of the shoulder flexibility needed? is it necessary to have when working those skills?

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Hewi

Hi everyone i am new to the board and i just found out about it :D

I started to train manna only a few weeks ago and i was wondering if isolating the hip pressing movement

would be good exercise since it is such a big part of manna?

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braindx
Hi everyone i am new to the board and i just found out about it :D

I started to train manna only a few weeks ago and i was wondering if isolating the hip pressing movement

would be good exercise since it is such a big part of manna?

I've personally found that pushing the hips out is a function of contracting your abs & hip flexors into your body to help counter balance the movement. It's not really something you can isolate except with active compression work.

Even if you can train the parts separately, you're only as strong as your weakest link and you kinda need to train them together.

What I've done to get a feel of higher positions is put my butt on a couch and try to find and hold the position with my hips a bit higher than I can press. I feel it's a good exercise although I don't know if Coach Sommer would recommend this.

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Coach Sommer

As I have mentioned previously, in my experience the most effective method for developing a manna is to focus on building a strong horizontal middle split hold. All other considerations and supplemental movements are secondary to this.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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braindx

Yeah, just so you know my advice is for after development of MSH like Coach Sommer says.

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