Convict Conditioning Gateway to Building the Gymnastic Body

I'm coming to this forum with a fairly advanced yoga background. There we do many movements similar to the movements found here, though the strength foundation is not as emphasized. After years of doing yoga, i believe this is a mistake, and am working to correct it in my own practice and at my yoga school.

For example I encounter many students who can't do a good chaturanga (basically a push up negative). I myself have noticed that compared to you guys i have a long way to go, and wish i'd been taught the path to get there. I don't care too much if i make it to my goals, but i enjoy the work, and the benefits i continually reap from it in my day to day life.

I've seen a few posts here from new comers who have difficulties with the 'basics' in BtGB. For these people i can whole heartedly recommend Convict Conditioning which was just released by Dragon Door. I've been working the program for about a month, and its an excellent way to build a foundation from which to start BtGB.

The book gives what it calls the big six exercises, but then gives progressions that will have a variation that almost anyone can do. Many have also found the simpler variations to be very therapeutic.

The final stages of the Big Six are:

One Hand Push Up

One Legged Squat (Pistol)

One Armed Pull Up

Hanging Leg Raise

Standing Drop Back to Bridge to Standing

One Arm Handstand Push Up (Honestly not sure can ANYONE do this)

Some of these are 'Basic' for Coach Sommers fans, but for normal adults aspiring to this dizzying heights of Coach Sommer's Athletes this is a pretty good starting point. Mostly due to how it teaches to gradually build up through clear progressions.

For example the first stage exercise in the OHPU series is normal push ups at a wall. 3 sets of 50 being the req't to move to step two. That is done with a 2 second lower and 1 second pause at the wall. After that Step two push ups with hands on a table or chair. I've been putting some of my students on this to help with their form and so far i'm really happy with the results.

So for those who teach 'regular' people or if you are having a hard time getting started with BtGB, Convict Conditioning is something to consider.

http://www.dragondoor.com/b41.html

Mr Brady said:

So for those who teach 'regular' people or if you are having a hard time getting started with BtGB, Convict Conditioning is something to consider.

BtGB has been carefully scaled for all ability levels; beginning with movements as easy as a basic pushup on the floor or XR Rows on the ground. In addition, essential fundamental static positions are also included in the training. Failure to make progress with the Gymnastic Bodies program will be due to failure to scale the workouts appropriately.

For beginner workout structures, there are generally four options that I recommend;

1) You may follow the GB WODs; scaled appropriately.

2) You may follow the killroy70 template.

3) You may follow a workout designed by a another forum member

4) You may design your own workout based on the principles in "Building the Gymnastic

Body".

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I agree even if you are too weak for some of the BtGB progressions it is not rocket science to bring your strength to those levels; you do not need a special program to reach the strength needed for the basic BtGB exercises.

I think Coach is right that BtGB is fine as a starting point even for regular gym rats, yoga guys and cross fitters. Take for example jutajata who posts here. That is a yoga guy who is doing amazing things coming from a yoga background and using BtGB to supplement his practice. Ido also brings a bit of yoga to his work.

I think, perhaps, that yoga in the US has been so chickified that the athleticism has been drained out of the practice. If you're into that Bikram yoga stuff it's a bit more athletic but so confined to repetition that real body strength progression is absent. Jutajata follows the DeRose Method or Swasthya Yoga http://www.derosehawaii.com/. From what I can discern that is a much more athletic progression of yoga and may be worth researching for you.

On the upside your background in yoga will provide you with a balance and flexibility foundation that, perhaps, the average gym rat or cross fitter coming to BtGB will not posess. There are significant advantages to this that will help enormously in the progressions. A good, consistant handstand is simply not possible without good shoulder girdle flexibility, yoga should have set you up nicely to progress quickly there.

What brought me to BtGB (through Ido) was, honestly, boredom with the lack of athleticism in the local yoga classes. I yearned for a bit more of a challenge and growth. I don't know about Convict Conditioning, I will say that the webpage selling it makes my eyes water. I set some personal goals and have tried to stick to the progressions. Just last week I finally met one of my goals: XR muscle up. Totally stoked on that one. I have noticed tangible strength increases and these have translated directly back to my yoga. All in all a very satisfying combination.

You could scale down a GB WOD to a grandma if you needed to.

trianglechoke7 said:

You could scale down a GB WOD to a grandma if you needed to.

Like me. I think I train at about the grandma level.

No offense meant Coach and thanks for the comments from you and everyone, lots of helpful information!

I see references here to Kettlebell's, Pavel, and also Enamait here, as well as posts from for example the guy having a hard time with crow stands. I thought it might not be bad to let folks know about another possible tool to put in the chest. Obviously for many here, its not needed, but its a worthwhile tool to know about IMHO.

For sure the DD way of hawking is over the top, i always feel apologetic pointing people there for that reason. But they've done Coach Sommer well, printing his seminal article there. I wouldn't have found this site otherwise. So i hope it was not poor decorum posting this 'review' here. For me the information and presentation in CC has been very helpful, although i plan to begin to incorporate the BtGB program and as my strength builds use that as my main program.

My copy of BtGB is on the way so i am only going on a version i found on line, which seems very challenging based on my experience teaching yoga classes to all kinds of folks. As i keep hanging out here i hope to learn more that i can incorporate as a student and teacher and have the same level of understanding about Coach Sommer's program as you all do.

So for me there is a learning curve, and the nice thing about a program like CC is that anyone can pick it up and get started right now. Again that's not to demean Coach Sommer's work! This site is by far the best i've run into for learning from, its filled in some gaps that no one else has been able to help me with, but most of the regulars here are a step or two beyond average.

I did question myself if i should add the 'review' to the site, i just considered it a worthwhile resource to know about so went ahead and posted, but should have kept the 'gateway' spin out of the equation.

I started one and a half years ago from below 0. Btgb wasn´t published yet but I found more than enougth information here on the forum to start my training. I couldn´t do a single push up, dont even ask about a pull up or 90º leg raises (maybe 35º at the begining?).

But doing the simpliest strength movements with the coach's system for basic strength has boosted my strength from none to acceptable, for example I can climb three quarters of the rope, leg less of course, that was unthinkable one year ago.

I used to believe on some kind of genetic reason for the strenght gymanasts have, now I know is hard work and the proper coach that drive you there ( ok for champs the genetics still apply). There are lots of great traing systems out there but none that I know is so carefully designed, and detailed to take you from grandma strength to almost olympic as BtGB. So read the stickys and begin this slow but no limit journey!

For the records I´m 33 now and weighted 93 kilos when I begun(at 1,70m). With some paleo(not that strict I must say) now I´m at 76 and going down slowly(next stop 70 kgs!)

I too found this site through Coach's article on Dragon Door.

I have to say that Convict Conditioning has several good points. One, and perhaps most importantly, it reinforces one of the main concepts here at gymnasticbodies: TAKE YOUR TIME. Don't try to jump ahead every time you get strong enough to. Let your joints adapt. Proper pacing leads to enormous long-term progress.

Personally I think that the BtGB book has the most comprehensive list of useful exercises in existence. I've certainly never come across another book with anywhere near as much quality material.

I do like how CC provides progressions for the one arm handstand push up. For pure strength development that's pretty hoss, and is a great step to shoot for after the proper handstand push up is mastered.

I also think that, in terms of useful strength in the real world, the one arm push up as outlined in CC fits in well with what we do here, and at a suggested 2 work sets shouldn't be a problem for anyone to integrate. SLS is redundant, we already cover that. The one arm pull up progression is also top quality stuff, and I have to say that I really like some of the intermediary steps, which are not in coach's book. Some are, and I am not taking away from Coach's progression at all, but the uneven pull ups are an important step in my opinion. That's really the big one to me, honestly.

In a way, throwing in the one arm push up progressions becomes a good warm up for planche work, provided they are done properly and at an appropriate progression as outlined. Additionally, the extra tricep strength built in the bent range of motion won't hurt muscle ups at all!

I definitely think CC is worth the read and the money, not only for the extra experience of the author, but also for the progressions for the SLS, OAPullup, OAPushup, OAHSPU, and the bridge. The SLS steps provide some useful intermediary tools for people who are doing deck squats easily but are having trouble with partial ROM SLS work. Don't knock it 'till you read for yourself! It is a good book in its' own right, and has lots of useful information, much of which supplements but does not overlap with BtGB. I suppose it's not absolutely necessary for a pure gymnast, but for anyone with mixed or more general goals for their fitness this is a good read with great information and progressive exercises.

I do like how CC provides progressions for the one arm handstand push up.

What would these progressions be? Has it been achieved or is the proposed progression merely theoretical? My suspicion is that this is nothing more than clever marketing offering that which can never be achieved. A true one arm handstand pushup is not something that I have ever seen or even heard about from credible sources; despite years of training with the finest gymnasts and coaches from around the world.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

He does say it's acceptable to do a leg kip on the push up from the floor, but that the lowering of the head to the floor should be totally under control.

The author says that once the HSPU is mastered, which to him is 2 sets of 10 reps, 2 seconds down and 2 seconds up, the next step is to... crap, I forgot the exact method but I'll post it when I get home tomorrow. Um, there's lever OAHSPU, which is basically where one arm slides along the floor straight armed, to provide maybe 10% assistance while the other arm is doing the actual OAHSPU. So it's a bit of a self-assist. I forget the recommended sets and reps before attempting OAHSPU, but the author does say that the elite goal should be 5 reps, though I'm guessing that takes forever and ever, and perhaps some people will never get there. I don't know. I'm certainly going to try! That's got to be at least a 10 year goal, maybe more. In fact, if you like I will scan and email you the pictures thru PM so you can see for yourself. I am curious to see what you think. These are still photographs, and while Jim Bathurst(spelling?) of beastskills.com is the model, I have no idea whether he can actually do these or whether he was posing.

It may very well be impossible, I have no idea. The closest I've seen is a video posted here of some handbalancer doing a set of 10, but they are explosive, certainly not presses, and they were done on a high bar.

Coach Sommer said:

I do like how CC provides progressions for the one arm handstand push up.

What would these progressions be? Has it been achieved or is the proposed progression merely theoretical? My suspicion is that this is nothing more than clever marketing offering that which can never be achieved. A true one arm handstand pushup is not something that I have ever seen or even heard about from credible sources; despite years of training with the finest gymnasts and coaches from around the world.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

There has been a great deal of debate about this. Some even claiming that the author doesn't even exist! The author has made no public statement, but a 'friend' has stating in short that 'yes Paul Wade does indeed exist and is who he claims to be'.

The author claims to have done over a dozen freestanding one hand handstand pushups '...a feat he's never seen replicated, even by Olympic gymnasts'.

One small difference in terminology being what you call a Headstand pushup he calls a Handstand pushup. Though still unimaginably difficult, i can at least believe a one hand headstand pushup at the wall is with in the scope of human possibility.

All the progressions in the book have been put into a ten step format. Most of them starting from the very easy, but with high reps to the final 'Master Step'

The HeSPU being the only one that starts out not super easy with. (Ok easy for anyone here, but not for someone with no prior experience) He does caution not to start with this series until there has been some mastery of the earlier ones though.

The Progression:

Tripod headstand build to 2 minutes

Crowstand build to 1 minute,

wall handstand build to 2 minutes,

1/2 down HeSPU build to 2 sets of 20,

HeSPU build to 2 sets of 15,

HeSPU hands together HSPU 2x12,

Uneven HeSPU 2x10,

1/2 down one arm HeSPU 2x8,

lever (straight arm in front on floor) HeSPU 2x6

OHHSPU (which according to the book will take at least 3 years from step one to achieve)

For me this is totally theoretical, not even thinking of getting there.

Any comparison of this book with BtGB is pointless, they are different, and for some will be complimentary. BtGB will be a much more complete system when its all out. CC has simplicity and excellent early stages, plus a bit of that DD color. In fact even though the final stages are quite lofty, the approach is such that getting there feels secondary. I take the DD color with good humor so i enjoy it, but you can't take it too seriously.

When Coach Sommer says something though, i trust it.

As i think about it, if the claim is true, one reason it may have been done in the prison environment is the mere lack of other things to do. In gymnastics there are many disciplines which vie for your training time, in prison a wall, sink, toilet seat and bunk bed are the main training tools. So limited to only the six exercises, and limitless time, perhaps the OHHeSPU really did happen.

The author claims to have done over a dozen freestanding one hand handstand pushups '...a feat he's never seen replicated, even by Olympic gymnasts'...

Video of the claimed dozen one arm handstand pushups, by either the author or one of his students, would put all doubts to rest.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

As I am currently playing around and experimenting with progressions for OAHSPU, I would LOVE to see a video of someone performing this. I certainly think that it's achievable, but that it must be specifically trained for and will not simply occur as a side effect of gymnastics training like a OAC or OAPU might.

Coach Sommer said:

The author claims to have done over a dozen freestanding one hand handstand pushups '...a feat he's never seen replicated, even by Olympic gymnasts'...

Video of the claimed dozen one arm handstand pushups, by either the author or one of his students, would put all doubts to rest.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

That's true, but don't hold your breath!

Maybe if his face were pixelated to hide his identity.....

Agreed, I hope I don't make it sound like I blindly believe the author, but I do believe that consistent specific training will make these "master steps" achievable over long periods of time. The progressions are well laid out, though I too personally won't believe any of it is true, achieved FACT until either I or someone else posts video. And let me tell you what, it's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooong time before I'm able to do that, if ever.

http://www.youtube.com/user/doum4#p/u/3/Xq2UldcjgD8

at 1:16 there is a OAHSPU although with a very small ROM.

Considering that monsieur Lacasse is quite strong and still is struggeling with those, it is hard to believe that there are non-gymnasts/non-cricus-performer who can do 12 of those.

You've got to account for training specificity as well. Has anyone specifically been training for this move? Gymnastics will not automatically impart the ability for this movement without specific training.

For example, you would think that Lacasse would be able to do an ab rollout out on his feet, but he cannot (he doesn't get as far as Ross Enamait). You can see this here at 55 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/user/doum4#p/u/2/vuPPrCOkr2U

The same with his OAPU demonstrated, its 'only' a negative, in fact none of the pull ups are to full arm extension...

(Not taking anything away from his skills here)

I think we'll have to wait awhile and see if anyone actually manages to do one on video or publicly. Until then i guess the OAHSPU will be something like Bigfoot or UFO's it could exist but who knows for real, its just an antidote now.

Mr Brady said:

I'm coming to this forum with a ... yoga background.

Mr. Brady,

Given your yogic background, are you familiar with this quote, I believe from the Upanishads?

"Two doctors and the death of the patient is assured; two teachers and the student is as good as dead; two wives makes the husband a dead man."

Or to paraphrase Mr. Mark Rippetoe: Two coaches, no wonder the athlete is confused.

Do yourself a favor and commit to the GB WODs. Also, commit to 5-6x a week ashtanga vinyasa with a quality teacher. Both of these will begin to address your strength deficiencies.

best,

jason

I guess these don't count?

One-arm Elbow Lever Press HS?

MA5XskutHrA

jasonmstein said:

I guess these don't count?

One-arm Elbow Lever Press HS?

Those are a common circus feat and there are some gifted/very hardworking individuals that can do them WITHOUT momentum! :shock: I would love to be able to them but thats still many, many years down the road. 8)

jasonmstein said:

I guess these don't count? ... One-arm Elbow Lever Press HS?

No, those don't count. They do not remain inverted, nor even stay in the same position. They are simply a kipping elbow lever, not a one arm HSPU. While quite difficult, they require a great deal less raw strength than the proposed one arm HSPU.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Looks like Jim from Beastskills.com is training for One arm handstand pushups.

I cant seem to get it to play here so here is the link.

In my opinion, it is highly misleading to have shown him in pictures for a move that he can not perform. At the very least, it should be noted in the book that he can not ACTUALLY do what he is showing in the picture.

For the record, I can probably do close to what he did in the video, especially with my back against the wall. While still neat looking, he is far away from even doing a partial ROM OAHeSPU. I don't mean to talk down about his abilities, I'm sure he's a capable athlete, he's certainly held in at least moderately high esteem from what I have see. He may end up getting OAHeSPU, but that's a biiiig if.