Carnivor by MuscleMeds

[Samuel Carr]

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3553841

Apparently its 350% more concentrated than steak in terms of protein, creatine, and the other muscle building nutrients. Any thoughts on whether u think this stuff would be good or not? Oh btw disregard the price cuz im not getting it from gnc so i wouldnt actually be paying this much if i got it.

[Gregor]

Looks good. It's slow protein like casein. So it's not for PWO meal, but durring the day.

[scottmo]

Have tried carnivor, Id have to say it is one of the worst tasting protein supplements ive tasted. You may get good results from it although it is difficult to choke down. You may want to opt for another brand. Have seen on another post Robb Wolff using a brand called Isoflex which is a whey protein isolate.

[Razz]

Can't taste worse than BCAA with no taste!

[Samuel Carr]

Ya but since its beef protein isolate, it's supposedly a lot better than whey. Idk tho cuz i read some online reviews and some people were saying it's actually been around for awhile, theyre just reintroducing it to make it sound and look cool for a new crowd

[Gregor]

Can't taste worse than BCAA with no taste!

Hahahahahaha I've told you so

[Gregor]

Ya but since its beef protein isolate, it's supposedly a lot better than whey. Idk tho cuz i read some online reviews and some people were saying it's actually been around for awhile, theyre just reintroducing it to make it sound and look cool for a new crowd

don't mix slow and fast acting proteins....They are for two diffrent reasons.

Casein is not better then whey and vice-versa. And beef is not worst then whey or tuna or whatever...

[Neal Winkler]

Ya but since its beef protein isolate, it's supposedly a lot better than whey. Idk tho cuz i read some online reviews and some people were saying it's actually been around for awhile, theyre just reintroducing it to make it sound and look cool for a new crowd

don't mix slow and fast acting proteins....They are for two diffrent reasons.

Casein is not better then whey and vice-versa. And beef is not worst then whey or tuna or whatever...

Gregor,

I've read from a couple of respected authors/trainers, who have no stake in protein supplements, that the whole "fast acting protein after training" thing has not really panned out in studies. Aragon has written such, along with McDonald, and I think Ido said something along these lines on this board before.

Let me know if you want the links, and I'd like to hear your opinion.

[Gregor]

So therefore you don't need any supplements and eat after workout just meat, eggs and it doesn't make any diffrence????

[Neal Winkler]

Here's a screen capture from Aragon's publication. I highlighted the conclusion. I can send you the whole thing if you want. All of his stuff is fully referenced.

It might take me a while to find the Lyle McDonald reference.

[Neal Winkler]

Also, here's another from the bullet point conclusions. Again, Aragon's stuff is fully referenced and he is pretty careful.

[Gregor]

Ingestion of whey hydrolysate, casein, or soy protein isolate: effects on mixed muscle protein synthesis at rest and following resistance exercise in young men

Jason E. Tang1, Daniel R. Moore1, Gregory W. Kujbida1, Mark A. Tarnopolsky1, and Stuart M. Phillips1*

1 McMaster University

* To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: phillis@mcmaster.ca.

This study was designed to compare the acute response of mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS) to rapidly (i.e., whey hydrolysate and soy) and slowly (i.e., micellar casein) digested proteins both at rest and after resistance exercise. Three groups of healthy young men (n=6 per group) performed a bout of unilateral leg resistance exercise followed by the consumption of a drink containing an equivalent content of essential amino acids (10g) as either whey hydrolysate, micellar casein, or soy protein isolate. Mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS) was determined by a primed constant infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine. Ingestion of whey protein resulted in a larger increase in blood essential amino acid, branched-chain amino acid, and leucine concentrations than either casein or soy (P<0.05). Mixed MPS at rest (determined in the non-exercised leg) was higher with ingestion of faster proteins (whey=0.091±0.015, soy=0.078±0.014, casein=0.047±0.008 %.h-1;); MPS after consumption of whey was ~93% greater than casein (P<0.01) and ~18% greater than soy (P=0.067). A similar result was observed after exercise (whey>soy>casein); MPS following whey consumption was ~122% greater than casein (P<0.01) and 31% greater than soy (P<0.05). MPS was also greater with soy consumption at rest (64%) and following resistance exercise (69%) compared to casein (both p<0.01). We conclude that the feeding-induced simulation of MPS in young men is greater after whey hydrolysate or soy protein consumption than casein both at rest and after resistance exercise; moreover, despite both being fast proteins whey hydrolysate stimulated MPS to a greater degree than soy after resistance exercise. These differences may be related to how quickly the proteins are digested (i.e., fast vs. slow) or possibly to small differences in leucine content of each protein.

[Gerrit Thomsen]

According to Bodybuilding.com this is just bad tasting hydrolyzed gelatin protein. Whey is much better regarding biological value.

Confirmed at Musclemed's booth at the Olympia Expo:

"Beef Protein Isolate" is bovine hydrolyzed gelatin protein. Straight from the mouth of whatever rep was wearing the Musclemed polo shirt and answering questions that day.

Sounds just like the original Nitrotech method. Mix a bit of whey isolate in with a bunch of whey concentrate and add creatine so the consumer thinks the weight & strength gains are coming from an amazing protein blend that is 1,400X better than straight whey.

Except that with Carnivor, you replace the whey with ground up & chemically decomposed cow skin, cartilage, & hooves. Yummy!

[Neal Winkler]

Ingestion of whey hydrolysate, casein, or soy protein isolate: effects on mixed muscle protein synthesis at rest and following resistance exercise in young men

Jason E. Tang1, Daniel R. Moore1, Gregory W. Kujbida1, Mark A. Tarnopolsky1, and Stuart M. Phillips1*

1 McMaster University

* To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: phillis@mcmaster.ca.

This study was designed to compare the acute response of mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS) to rapidly (i.e., whey hydrolysate and soy) and slowly (i.e., micellar casein) digested proteins both at rest and after resistance exercise. Three groups of healthy young men (n=6 per group) performed a bout of unilateral leg resistance exercise followed by the consumption of a drink containing an equivalent content of essential amino acids (10g) as either whey hydrolysate, micellar casein, or soy protein isolate. Mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS) was determined by a primed constant infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine. Ingestion of whey protein resulted in a larger increase in blood essential amino acid, branched-chain amino acid, and leucine concentrations than either casein or soy (P<0.05). Mixed MPS at rest (determined in the non-exercised leg) was higher with ingestion of faster proteins (whey=0.091±0.015, soy=0.078±0.014, casein=0.047±0.008 %.h-1;); MPS after consumption of whey was ~93% greater than casein (P<0.01) and ~18% greater than soy (P=0.067). A similar result was observed after exercise (whey>soy>casein); MPS following whey consumption was ~122% greater than casein (P<0.01) and 31% greater than soy (P<0.05). MPS was also greater with soy consumption at rest (64%) and following resistance exercise (69%) compared to casein (both p<0.01). We conclude that the feeding-induced simulation of MPS in young men is greater after whey hydrolysate or soy protein consumption than casein both at rest and after resistance exercise; moreover, despite both being fast proteins whey hydrolysate stimulated MPS to a greater degree than soy after resistance exercise. These differences may be related to how quickly the proteins are digested (i.e., fast vs. slow) or possibly to small differences in leucine content of each protein.

Gregor,

The review I posted came out before this study, but Aragon actually looked at this one in his publication when it did come out.

Here's the rundown (the following is shortened version of what Aragon wrote).

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Study Strengths: First study to directly look at rates of MPS. Subjects consumed equal amounts of protein 2 days prior the study to minimize confounding dietary differences. Doses were matched for EAA content.

Study Weaknesses: Only the acute response was measured, which is bad because the acute response does not necessarily hold up over the long term. Subjects exercised in a fasted state, which does not typically mimic the real world conditions of trainees.

Study Comment: The results of this study are interesting because they contradict previous research showing a possible advantage for slow digesting proteins. Measuring MPS was good since muscle only makes up about 25% of whole body protein, and it's possible that previous research could be misleading since the superior results for slow digesting proteins could be occurring for non-muscle tissues. That sounds great for whey, but the existing long-term research is still inconclusive (remember, the study only looked at the acute response). The bulk of literature shows the casein is superior for resistance training adaptations. Hopefully in the future long-term term studies done on people who are not in fasted state will clear the picture up.

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One other thing I want to note is that we often have a tendency to argue from abstracts. I would go as far to say that abstracts are evidentially useless, because all studies have strengths and weakness that are not conveyed through the abstract. The weight that we put on the conclusions of abstracts should never be assessed until we look at the whole paper (which is not available to the public in this case).