Training question...

[Rampage]

I wanted to know: do gymnasts or you guys here, ever do regular 100% bodyweight pullups, chinups, dips and pushups?

[deljosque]

yes my boys do that every training in multiple combinations and variations

[Rampage]

yes my boys do that every training in multiple combinations and variations

But do the older/adult/pro gymnasts ever do them? I only meant regular pullups, dips, chinups and pushups, and with no added weight.

[Neal Winkler]

My guess is that pros might only do those things for warming up or as part of a deloading phase in which they need to decrease intensity.

[Rampage]

Hi,

I'm terribly sorry to ask this again, but I'm afraid I just feel I haven't been answered this directly and clearly (plus I don't have the book yet either), and I just want to be clear on this issue so I will never have to ask about it again and bother anyone, so I just want to ask if someone can please clear this up for me...

Alright so in another thread I had made I was told that 1-5 reps per set are for maximal strength gains; 6-8 reps per set is middle ground between strength and hypertrophy; 9-12 reps per set is hypertrophy; and 13+ reps per set is for muscular endurance.

So as I said elsewhere I can do like 12-14 reps in one go of either (regular) pulls, chins or dips (I guess it's around there, that was last time I tried and I haven't tried in a while) with no added weight.

Now, I got the point of how doing any exercise with 13+ reps on each set is "endurance" work and not strength or hypertrophy or a combination of both, which was my "plan" and way of wanting to train before I got here (many reps 100%bodyweight), so I haven't done that again since slizzardman and others told me in the other thread (except with declined pushups on pushup bars, but that's more like warming-up or not my "main" workout then), so thanks for that.

And so I read obviously that you should train with a 5x5 scheme with these exercises (btw which are all the exercises you should do 5x5?) for the best gains and results.

So what I was doing some days ago (besides the PL and FL progressions, HS and other things) was 4 sets of 7 chinups/pullups and then 7 dips; 7 chins/pulls and then immediately 7 dips would be the "set", so I would do 4 of those sets with 30s rest between each one, all with no added weight.

Alright so obviously the first 2 sets of these are very easy and I don't feel anything, but then the 3rd and 4th sets are somewhat hard and then I can't do a 5th set, so my question is: what kind of training is this? Is this the kind of training you guys refer to here, in which you do 5 sets of 5 reps because you can't do any more reps?

Also, would it be ok (and what would happen) if I were to stick with this kind of training, until I can do 4-5 sets with 12 reps, which is the limit for hypertrophy? All with no added weight of course (just for this kind of training, which won't be my "main" one but just additional and because I like it, I do intend to eventually do weighted pulls, chins, dips, etc.)

Finally, I was just wondering how is it that you guys do 5 sets of the most reps that you can because, when I do the 4th and 5th sets of this kind of training, I can't do any more sets because I'm burned out, so it's actually like I only do 2 sets of the most chins/pulls and dips that I can, which happens to be 7, since the first 2 don't really count, so how do you guys do 5 sets?

I really have read as much as I have been able to find the answer to these specific questions and avoid troubling anyone here, but I haven't found the answer...

I hope I don't get anyone mad here, and I'm sorry if I'm a pain in the ***; I'm just trying to understand these things so I won't have to ask them again and bother someone, so I'm sorry...

Thanks.

[Joshua Naterman]

what kind of training is this? Is this the kind of training you guys refer to here, in which you do 5 sets of 5 reps because you can't do any more reps?

This would be metabolic conditioning, where you are essentially moving through exercises that hit different body parts with no rest. The idea is to force your body to adapt to processing large levels of metabolic byproducts such as lactic acid, as well as a reasonably strong endurance component.

Also, would it be ok (and what would happen) if I were to stick with this kind of training, until I can do 4-5 sets with 12 reps, which is the limit for hypertrophy? All with no added weight of course (just for this kind of training, which won't be my "main" one but just additional and because I like it, I do intend to eventually do weighted pulls, chins, dips, etc.)

It might actually help you to do this once a week or so, and once you get to where you can do all this with 10+ reps for at least the first two or three sets you can throw on a few lbs, just enough to bring it back down to 7 with perfect form.

Finally, I was just wondering how is it that you guys do 5 sets of the most reps that you can because, when I do the 4th and 5th sets of this kind of training, I can't do any more sets because I'm burned out, so it's actually like I only do 2 sets of the most chins/pulls and dips that I can, which happens to be 7, since the first 2 don't really count, so how do you guys do 5 sets?

Well, I can only speak for me, but I do one of two things. One, my later sets are rest paused, to keep the intensity of the exercise high, and two, when I can't even get 3 reps straight I go down a progression. So, if I'm doing front lever rows and I'm doing sort of an ugly straddle for two sets, I might have to go to a flat tuck for sets 3 and 4, and all the way back to a tuck for set 5. Just an example.

I really have read as much as I have been able to find the answer to these specific questions and avoid troubling anyone here, but I haven't found the answer...

I hope I don't get anyone mad here, and I'm sorry if I'm a pain in the ***; I'm just trying to understand these things so I won't have to ask them again and bother someone, so I'm sorry...

Bah! Those were great questions, I think the answers to them are important and informative for everyone. I hope this helps! Sorry I wasn't able to get back here earlier.

[David Picó García]

I do dips and chinups for warm up, If i want to them for the 1-5 rep schema with those exercises i add weight (20 kg - 44 pounds).

Other way is do more difficult exercises of this kind. I can do +25 dips on a dip station or parallel bar, but i can only do 10 bulgarian dips on rings, or 6 swinging dips on rings.

I can do more than 15 extrictly pullups but no more than 10 clapping pull ups.

So i guess that after some amount of strength you have the choices of do the same exercise with weight and/or go to the next progression on that exercise family. The coach book is great for this. In fact regular dips and pullups are the rated as the easiest ones of their exercises families.

When doing 5 reps i try that the exercise is hard enough but not to failure on the 5th rep. And let do it with more rest between sets.

[Gregor]

My guess is that pros might only do those things for warming up or as part of a deloading phase in which they need to decrease intensity.

I'm doing it just as warming up.

But my boys are going trough all progresions of all kinds of variations.