Neutral grip and supinated PU don't hurt but pronated do?

[Blairbob]

Odd, but supinated and neutral grip PU do not strain or place any discomfort on my elbow but pronated do, especially if I go slightly wider than shoulders or wide or scarecrow width for BFKPU.

I was playing around with this on T-day break in LA since my brothers have a pullup bar on their door (IronGym).

My left elbow has been bothering me for a quite awhile. I believe it stems from an armbar during training but well, that's training.

A lot of straight arm work like Back Levers or Wide Arm HS holds or Rings turned out support/dips can bother it.

These pullups were performed strict, not kipped though BFK PU during WODS generally toast my left elbow for awhile.

My left elbow tends to seem have a limited of volume before I just don't go on further. It has now become an annoying pain in the butt.

Thoughts, and Steve Low thinks it might be a lack of flexibility in the shoulder which is somewhat tight based on wallslides performance.

I think quite possibly the problem has been, besides the armbar in question, is that I have the ability to do wide-arm L-PU/Bulgarian PU or bulgarian/RTO dips, rope climb without legs, 2 rope climb (but not as well as I would like) but maybe it's just too much.

Support with the rings neutral doesn't bother it nor does MU.

[John Sapinoso]

butt supinated

typo? interesting visual :wink:

I also had an arm bar injury. I accepted a friendly wrestling challenge, but stubborn me didn't tap out when my opponent (who later revealed he used to be a wrestling instructor) put me in an arm bar and I tried to lift him off the floor straight armed. The next day doing crosses, something popped and swelled in my elbow.

It sounds like an aggravated injury to me so I'd say treat it like one; cut the volume and intensity a bit and ice and massage.

[Blairbob]

yeah, I have tried staying away from anything that hurt it as well as limited volume. It seems to be more what position my elbow is in that aggravates it.

Hmm, doing dips on barstools with my hands turned out and shoulders way forward of my hands doesn't aggravate my elbow at all. Neither does finger forward tuck planche (advanced tuck isn't happening I guess). In this position, there probably isnt as much load on the elbow.

if my hands are supinated in front of me, it is the outermost top part of the elbow

[Jason Stein]

Coach Sommer showed an elbow pre/rehab protocol at the seminar in May that was very potent. I'll see if I can find a video link or descriptions of something similar.

[Jason Stein]

Blair,

This is pretty much what Coach Sommer recommended for elbow health at the seminar.

We're fortunate enough to have club-bells at the gym, but you could use a skillet or wok because I don't think a hammer would provide sufficient resistance. You probably won't need to support one arm with the other, either.

Also, interestingly, the rubber-band exercise at the end of the video is one recommended by the equilibrist/hand-balancer with whom I've been training.

I hope this might be helpful to you.

jason

V2Uc0JkedY8

[Blairbob]

Thankyou, I used to do this with a bokken/bokuto or staff but have not done so in awhile.

[bst]

I am having similar issues, trying to work through them right now. My left elbow is the one that bothers me the most often, although my right will too if my volume gets too high. I am left handed, which probably makes a difference. I've had that arm trapped in armbars on numerous occasions, twice where it was hyperextended enough to cause pain. I also had a grade 1 separation of my left A/C joint years ago, and am convinced that it has affected the structural and functional integrity. I've had the same experiences with pullups, wide-grip pronated are too painful (i can do them, but probably shouldn't). FL tucks are the worst, followed by BL holds.

[Jason Stein]

Blair,

I had nagging elbow pain for a while in April and May. It was a two-parter --- part one, a session of clapping PUs in which I was plyometrically snapping out of the bottom position. Part two, ignoring twinges and continuing to train the BL.

I stopped doing anything that was aggravating it ("First do no harm"), and then did the elbow prehab twice weekly for 4 weeks with 5# clubbells (whichever was the lightest). I used the elbow exercises as part of my warm-up, and often subbed them for BLs between sets of any pulling or curling in the various Embedded WODs.

I have since resumed pretty conservatively, and in fall worked back up to the RX'd time recommendations.

Obviously the BL is not your issue. Coach Sommer repeats himself blue in the face, but that one takes time advancing through the progressions. It seems that many strong guys can hop onto rings and hold a full BL. I could lower into it and pull out of it soon after beginning this training because the muscular strength was there. (In my case, I'm not that strong, I just had specific practice with the required body tension and awareness.)

The connective tissue strength? Not so much.

The elbow prehab was amazing because it provided instant relief --- it felt like medicine.

One of the guys I train with also has had elbow and shoulder issues. He also has trouble with pronated L-PUs, which bother his shoulder, and suppinated BLs bother his elbows. He's a bit restricted through the shoulder girdle (for example, as his Korean dips and Wall Walks have improved, so have his pronated L-PUs). I can't help but think that's part of the problem.

Best of luck,

jason

[Blairbob]

I need to state that it does not seem to be the bicep tendon but the forearm tendon. Brachioradialis? I'm having a hard time finding a good picture (partially because I can't seem to rid myself of some adware that no programs are killing off).

[Neal Winkler]

Jason,

Does Coach have his athletes do that elbow work during warmup.

[Jason Stein]

He didn't specify (or I can't recall) at what point during training his athletes performed the elbow prehab. I do remember Coach Sommer said he wished he'd known the elbow exercises when he was competing as they would have saved him a lot of trouble.

I do recall that he mentioned his athletes do the various prehab activities twice a week.

I can tell you that I am practicing prehab twice a week, and I've found an upper/lower split helpful. That is, one day do wrists, elbows, shoulders, and the next do hips, knees, ankles.

Coach Sommer did have multiple pre- and re-hab exercises (and more) for all the joints listed above.

Here are a few notes from the seminar that have been of great benefit to my training, and which I have ignored to my own detriment:

• [*:1iy6gmfl]Joint preparation and recovery are key to long term success in training.
  [*:1iy6gmfl]Give the body time to adapt. PATIENCE.
  [*:1iy6gmfl]Don't grind.
  [*:1iy6gmfl]Pain = discomfort that INCREASES with time after exercise. Discomfort in exercise should diminish after exercise is complete.

And then, my favorite quote, which has helped me through the 4-round WODs he posts here:

"Done correctly, your conditioning should feel like brushing your teeth."

[Blairbob]

Thankyou again, Jason.

I started that rehab that week and it's helped quite a bit. It can still can nag somewhat, but the first workout it started feeling better. I think it did because of that exercise putting blood flow through the area.

For instance, today I was able to do kipping pullups and strict pronated pullups during and after a CF WOD for a fundraiser. I did the exercises in the WU about 2 sets of 2 sets of typically 10-15 reps.

Sometime later I was able to squeeze off pronated pullups without discomfort though I was really tired. We'll see how they fair in the next couple days. All told it still was only 15 kipping pullups+2 strict pullups+2 more+5 kipping to warmup. Very low volume.

As well they haven't been bothering me in the straight arm work as much. I think again it's because the movement gets bloodflow through the area.

As well for a few days, I'm back on my fish oil of 5-10g of EPA/DHA as I had run out.