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Rotator cuff injury... stopping all of this plan until it's healed.

I'll just do rehab, rest, talking to the teacher in my weight lifing class (instead of working) and do legs on tuesday. No squat+deadlift since I couldn't stand to use my arm to hold a bar or support its weight. Just extension, curl, and seated press... I can still work with my left arm though.

How did you get the injury?

I think it all started two years ago... I was messing around and did an ultra wide push up (which isn't dangerous if you do it right), but my arms were at the wrong angle (elbow too high compared to shoulder). I felt pain and toppled, then gave up for a while. Oh, it was probably nothing. It started flaring up on and off since then, with now being the most painful recurrence. I've heard it's typical for this to happen, so it makes sense.

Wait... this might be farther back than I thought. I remember having a shoulder problem once in 8th grade... I'm in 11th now... yikes.

When I started training I could do an adv tuck planche, but not too long. I can still only hold it for about 20 seconds.

What I mean by close to straddle is that in a straddle split, I can lift my feet off the ground and put them back about an inch. All I have to do is lift the rest of my legs

That's a crushed dream for now though... I'll resume training when this whole thing blows over. No planche, manna, reverse planche... :/

I'll just work on handstands and things like one arm straddle Ls with my left hand. That's really all there is to do. Go for getting a good one arm push up and a one arm chin while i'm at it. It'll finally give me a chance to force myself into being ambidextrous It'll also allow my left arm to catch up to my right muscle wise.

One more thing... I would like to take up yoga while this is all going on. Does anyone know any good websites for this?

OK! The through some reading and a few self developed tests... I think my lower back in the only thing stopping me from planching. I found out that my psuedo planche push ups are very close to my balance point, and my planche leans are past it.

I'm going to work my lower back (slowly, because having a sore lower back SUCKS) mainly.

I also managed to buy myself some protein. I got GNC's brand of weight gainer. It's the 2200 gold stuff... Tons of calories, a good amount of protein, a bunch load of vitamins and minerals, and some delicious carbs.

mmmmmmm

Dreadrok said:

good lordy how the smell do you allready almost have a straddle planche.. nice work

where was your training when you started in your statics?

im still stuck like a mad man on flat back tuck planche. in the 3's range =/

Sorry I never answered. I could hold an adv. tuck planche when I started, but I never tested to see how long.

This is my philosophy on doing stuff (maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right... either way, I'm doing it):

I think it's a waste of time to hold something for any longer than 7 seconds or so. If you're trying to get to the next progression, I think it would be best to work on strength during each practice instead of endurance. It's only when you achieve something that you'd like to show off (like straddle planche or full planche) you would practice for time. Coach says in his book that you could train strength or time, but not in the same session. So, all my sessions have been strength, and apparently they're doing well.

Another update... I went to the doctor today about my shoulder. They got me a sling and a prescription for an X ray (they do that? lol). The only good part of going there is that I learned I now weigh 130 1/2 officially. I made a little gain, and I don't see signs of fat My goal weight (eventually, not any time soon) is 160-170. The doctor said I can't use my other shoulder either, which I think is BS, but I should listen :/ I can use it I mean, just not over doing it trying to compensate.

I sort of stumbled upon this post while thinking about inverse planches today, and I give you my full support in this quest, as long as you don't injure yourself too bad.

Hahaha I won't. Not from this at least.

I hurt my rotator cuff even before starting this, so now I'm treating it like a mother ***************** I'll resume training after i feel it's ready.

I've been on a bout of no pain from my shoulder. The X-Rays showed nothing (obviously lol).

I've diverted my training practices to be planche related. Once I get planche, I'll fully focus on manna.

Monday: PPP, Planche Leans, and some PPP looking bench press. You would be on a bench lying down, holding a bar. Lower the bar like a front raise or planche lean to hip level. From there, let down, and push back up on the same line. Not a circular motion. Basically it's a really low close grip bench press. With that I can only handle 55 lbs for an untested amount of reps. (7-12)?

Tuesday: Jefferson curls (75-85lbs for 10 reps or so), lower back extensions. There's no equipment in my gym for RLL, but I may train that at home.

Wednesday: Rest. Mess around, nothing important. Demonstrate for the crowds one hand push ups, those pushups Jack Lalanne (or however you spell it) does, and handstand work. These aren't set though, it's nothing hard. Just to get the body moving. I got kung fu a few hours after schools.

Thursday: Same as monday.

Friday: Same as tuesday.

Saturday: Kung fu in the morning, but random things during the day. (usually basic floor elements)

Sunday: Random things again, but probably less intense or not at all. Mostly a rest day.

Well... I'm laying off my shoulder for a while. It doesn't hurt, but I'm just being cautious.

The reason is so that I can work on my legs. I've been asked to promote someone's martial art, so I'm going to be paying attention to kicks and flexibility.

Being the plan changer I am, I've been messing around with handstands for a week or two and now I can almost consistently pull out 10s+. I also could do 7 hand hops

Now... My form isn't so great (gymnastics-wise). I just need to consciously move my shoulders up more. I have the flexibility for it, I just haven't acted on it.

Well, I'm working myself back into my old schedule. I've been doing leg exercises at my kung fu school every time I go because of my shoulder, but I felt really good to do everything after my 3-5 week lapse. I feel even better than before, haha. I had considered the fact that maybe I had been over training, but I'm not so sure. I probably would have known if this was true.

I'm not going to work planche again just yet, I would rather be sure my shoulder is fine. So I'll stick to the handstands for now.

Good decision imo. You ony got one body and you better be carefull with it. Better safe than sorry!

Seiji said:

Dreadrok said:

I think it's a waste of time to hold something for any longer than 7 seconds or so. If you're trying to get to the next progression, I think it would be best to work on strength during each practice instead of endurance. It's only when you achieve something that you'd like to show off (like straddle planche or full planche) you would practice for time. Coach says in his book that you could train strength or time, but not in the same session. So, all my sessions have been strength, and apparently they're doing well.

How is holding for longer than 7 seconds only good for endurance?

It works different muscle fiber types and uses different energy systems, depending on how long you hold a position.

There are three muscle fiber types, and each ones uses a different system to get their energy. Going to the 60 second static hold rule would make you use all three and would demonstrate strength and endurance. The only problem is that the carryover of holding exactly one position isn't so great. Trying to advance to the next position for about 5-10 seconds would be a great way to improve strength, anything more builds endurance. Of course, endurance is never a bad thing, but why train in a certain way towards your goal if there is a faster way? Eventually one would hope to hold a position for a long time, but you could just focus on that later.

Seiji said:

It works different muscle fiber types and uses different energy systems, depending on how long you hold a position.

There are three muscle fiber types, and each ones uses a different system to get their energy. Going to the 60 second static hold rule would make you use all three and would demonstrate strength and endurance. The only problem is that the carryover of holding exactly one position isn't so great. Trying to advance to the next position for about 5-10 seconds would be a great way to improve strength, anything more builds endurance. Of course, endurance is never a bad thing, but why train in a certain way towards your goal if there is a faster way? Eventually one would hope to hold a position for a long time, but you could just focus on that later.

Seiji, you are not considering the entire picture of building strength. You are viewing strength as merely a energy substrate phenomena. Even then, you explanation is not exactly accurate.

The 60 second rule is not 60 straight seconds, it's 60 accumulated seconds.

As Ido has said in a different thread, up to 20 second holds is for strength. My suggestion is that before you blaze your own trail and make your own rules, you follow the path of those that come before you.

I didn't go into a good explanation Ido follows the same thing I do.

Fast twitch 2b fiber is your strongest and fastest muscle fiber, but can only work for about 5-7 seconds before giving out because the energy source is creatine. Your body doesn't make creatine all the time, so you're going to run out of strength fast. It takes like 2-3 minutes to recover back to normal.

Fast twitch 2a fiber is right behind that which lasts up to 20 seconds. It runs on glucose, which can be found, but isn't going to be available to a muscle for longer than that. It'll take about 1 or 2 minutes for the energy to come back to this one.

Slow twitch muscle fiber can last basically forever, it runs on oxygen, which you can come up with really quickly.

Going down that list, each fiber is weaker than the one above. Also, each one is smaller than the one above. I'm not saying fast twitch 2a is useless, but I would rather train absolutely the hardest I could. However, you can use more than one of these at a time, you always do when trying to do something.

Then there's the thing with all us youngnz where there are undecided fibers which you can transform into other types, but science hasn't figured that out yet so I won't go into it.

I didn't mean to seem arrogant or uninformed (i don't claim to know everything). If you know something that I don't I'd love to learn it I also don't want to come across as rude, if that's what you're thinking :/

I do appreciate the things on this forum. I always learn new things

Seiji, I didn't think you were being rude.

Some comments:

(1) The ATP-PCr system last for about 10 seconds or so. The Glycolytic system up to about 45 seconds.

(2) Type IIb are not ONLY recruited for efforts that can only be sustained for a few seconds. If that were true then they would only be recruited for intensities of like 95% or higher, but they are maximally recruited at about 85% intensity at which point neurological factors provide the rest of force output.

(3) As this shows, the fiber types to not correspond directly to the energy systems, because 85% intensity can be sustained for more than the ATP-PCr system supplies energy.

(4) The amount of type IIb vs. IIa does not make much difference for the display of maximal force, only power. Actually, any type of training will convert IIb to IIa to some degree. Fiber type conversion does not occur in only young people, it occurs in adults as well. The people with the highest proportion of type IIb are actually couch potatoes.

Fast twitch 2b fiber is your strongest and fastest muscle fiber, but can only work for about 5-7 seconds before giving out because the energy source is creatine. Your body doesn't make creatine all the time, so you're going to run out of strength fast. It takes like 2-3 minutes to recover back to normal.

Just so you know, the energy source is not creatine. Creatine is phosphorylised to creatine phosphate. Creatine phosphate is used to quickly generate ATP from ADP. ATP is the actual fuel which the actin-myosin complex uses for contraction. Creatine is merely a vessel for storing energy in a way that is usable quickly.

Well, thanks for clearing this up for me guys

Ok... so now my shoulder should be fine. Although, I'm still taking it slower than normal.

I'm sort of back to my normal schedule. I'm just taking it slower on planche because that seemed to agitate my shoulder a while back more than anything else.

On mondays, I work upper body pressing in general. I did wide grip bench press, planche leans, PPP, and one of those pectoral isolation machines.

Tuesdays will still be leg days. Something AWESOME is that I found out I can 2x bodyweight deadlift. I hadn't deadlifted before last week and I kept going up until I got past 2x. I weigh 126 lbs and I could lift 270 (not counting myself) for a 2.2x. I plan on getting that 3x or higher eventually Squat, deadlift, curl and extension.

Wednesday is still rest. I might do jefferson curls on this day though.

Thursday = Victorian training. You know, I can train planche for a long time and not wake up sore. However, by doing a ring swing that come up into a front lever or even just leaning back into a victorian can leave me massively sore.

Friday is the same as monday.

Here are some pictures of my progress. It probably went down considering I haven't worked anything intensely in a month or two... or three. o.O?

Bent elbows.

I knew someone would say that.

As I'm not actually a gymnast, I have the right to say that I don't like hyperextension and refuse to work strength with it Don't worry, I'll fix it.

I was messing with the iron cross and wondered something; I once read, from you actually, that someone's elbows had a really big hyperextension when doing it. Does this mean the correct technique is to rotate the shoulders for it? I can't do it because of my shoulder (it bothers me when trying), but I just wanted to know.

No. It's not just one technique.