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Aran Van Dinteren

will running stimulate my overall movement?

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William Marler

You sound like my kind of runner! I hate it. What has worked for me is to set a schedule where I increase a little over the previous run. I worked up to a 10k this past May by running twice a week, where each day I went .25k further than the last day (so each Saturday run was .5km longer than the previous Saturday run). I timed myself, but that was just out of interest; distance was my focus. I hate to say it's "simple," but at my level it was: apply progressive overload to your running in a way you can maintain for weeks & months, and results will follow. I strongly recommend the front split stretch series as well. 

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Paul Gray

Hahaha exactly. I've never really enjoyed running unless it was for soccer, I think I was scarred by my experiences of cross country running at school where I just wanted to die towards the end of the race.

Yep been doing the front split course for some time now, so my calves know what pain feels like. Upped the calf raises to 70reps also now.

I want to learn to ENJOY it........but the brain cannot compute this concept at the moment :D

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William Marler
20 minutes ago, Paul Gray said:

I think I was scarred by my experiences of cross country running at school where I just wanted to die towards the end of the race.

This happened to me with rowing. I was a rower my freshman year in college, and for years after quitting the team (I was proud of completing the whole season ... but I did not come back after the summer break) I would not get on an erg (Concept 2 rowing machine). I've since overcome my aversion, but while I will get on and row, I would never say I "enjoy" it. I'm ok with this... and ok with not rowing all that much or having much rowing capacity, ha.

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Everett Carroll

I always recommend easy running without worrying about time or distance at first. If alternating running and walking is the only reasonable option for you right now then do that. Don't worry about a training program for running until you are jogging at least 20-30 minutes without stopping. Take it slow and work on consistency right now. Also, when you deload your GST, also deload your cardio.

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Ryan Libke
2 hours ago, Paul Gray said:

Guys any tips for building up running capacity?  I'm used to working hard foundation wise and limiting rest to just mobility, but the idea of running non-stop for 20mins or more is a little daunting - 3 mins warmup is enough to get me puffing but that's at a fairly fast pace ;)

I have seen a couple of plans that advocate building up with 2:1 ratio of - 2 being running, 1 walking.  So 2mins run, 1 min walk....and build up from there.  Any suggestions?

I have had a good running experience recently using a heart rate monitor, with the goal of keeping my heart rate in the aerobic zone, as it were.  There has been considerable discourse about the use of intervals or sprints, with some some strong detractors to aerobic exercise.  I purchased the audiobook Primal Endurance after hearing Mr. Sisson on Robb Wolf's Paleo Solution Podcast promoting the book.  I am not an endurance athlete, and my main focus now is on GST.  However, I have found that running using the Maffetone method advocated in the book (180-age) to be a good complement to the GST.  I don't feel worn down when adding to to the Foundation/HS/tumbling; it is almost like a form of recovery.  I run barefoot/minimalist, having taken considerable time to get my body prepared.  Do not transition from running with shoes to running barefoot/minimalist immediately, and read up on making this transition if you elect to do so.   

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Douglas Wadle

I like what Ryan says above.  I would just add that there is adverse risk:benefit ratio by putting in speed work and intervals before you're able to comfortably run aerobically.  I also like Maffetone's 180-age formula.  It's also a good conversational pace, so running with a friend and keeping up a dialogue will let you know if you're pushing too hard.  Another good governor is only breathing through your nose.  Tough to do when you're getting anaerobic.

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Paul Gray

Ah that's great advice then as I thought I had to be killing it pace wise and hence avoiding. 

 

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Christopher Jackson

I echo the recommendations of Primal Endurance and the Maffetone method.  I also check my heart rate variability on an app that helps me decide what kind of conditioning to do on a given day.  For a really inspirational article on incorporating strength and endurance read this:

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2011/12/06/the-painless-path-to-endurance-plus-breville-winner-and-more/

I've used the principles here for a while now.  You will see the subject of the article drops his heart rate max on a long run to 60% which for me often means a brisk walk, but it doesn't interfere with strength work for the week.

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Ronnicky Roy

Personally, I think sticking with high level plyometric work and sprints/interval runs will be your best bet. I've always been more of a sprinter than distance runner.
After about a solid year of doing explosive one leg leaps off a run and two leg explosive jumps, along side alternating sprints/high pace running. At the end of the year I could run 15 miles in a single sitting and not be tired at the end of it. And I never directly trained distance running. The only thing that will hold you back is lung capacity if you don't know how to breathe while running. Simply doing breathing exercises and improving your mid-run breathing will increase your running distance and run time, because your body can do more output. So I guess I'm really saying, 1. Do breath work, 2. Focus on improving plyometric work 3. Throw in alternating sprint/runs. 1 - 2 days a week is enough, but increasing the number of workouts if you can handle them will obviously improve the results.

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Paul Gray

So if my understanding is correct Foundation work is Anaerobic? We're working on building up your our work capacity here, but you don't want to do too much anaerobic work as it will take too much toll on the nervous system.  So jogging as an active recovery (aerobically) is best?

I have now done a couple of gentle jogs and found that I could comfortably manage 20mins of continuous easy gentle running, so I'm wondering what to do next...

And what is the end goal here from a gymnastics perspective? As coach has stated the Chinese adult national team perform several 3-5 mile runs per week, is this purely just for blood flow and recovery or are they actually improving their cardio output by running faster and keeping their heart rate low?

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Ryan Bailey
2 hours ago, Paul Gray said:

So if my understanding is correct Foundation work is Anaerobic? We're working on building up your our work capacity here, but you don't want to do too much anaerobic work as it will take too much toll on the nervous system.  So jogging as an active recovery (aerobically) is best?

Hey Paul, Congrats on the 20 Min Jog!

I can add a little input to your first question regarding anaerobic.  It depends.  With all the beginning level F1 programing and the students activity level, sometimes its aerobic with a lot of the 30-60r work or 30s holds ect.  For example, here is a little research on myself using heart rate monitor from a workout last year:

Type: F7  (5 of the 7 elements were in the final Step 9)

Time to complete: 43 min 44 sec.

Average HR: 139 bpm  (~76% of Max Heart Rate Intensity)

What increased the Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) was the cardiac demand of the final three elements, which were SLS, HBP, RC (Leg and mainly Upper Body).  The heart rate jumped consistently between 158 and 168 (RPE: 8/10, or 17/20 (Which happens to correlate to 170 bpm heart rate, anaerobic) (making the last reps challenging (86%-92% MHR)... generally more anaerobic for the Leg and Upper Body workout at the end of the session.

The 30 minute warm up was aerobic with the heart rate monitor and the beginning 4 elements (Mainly core) were in the 60-75% MHR, more aerobic range.

I'm sure as one progresses to F2 or F3, or more strength work, there will be more anaerobic conditioning.   

 

Your other question regarding aerobic running for recovery.  If conditioned, running is fine but walking longer distances can also be used for recovery or general activity if someone is in the early (somewhat aerobic) phases of beginning F1. 

But in general, the beginning athlete is completing higher reps and sets with lower levels of strength, more of an aerobic, training style while getting your feet wet. For myself, I focused on learning the Foundation course and I did not feel a need initially to supplement running until later. 

If I felt like running, I would do another Foundation workout.

Some interesting and good advice from others however in the previous comments to yours.  The fun part is discovering what works for each person. (Like @Douglas Wadle for example: he is probably running over a mountain right now, chasing down a large animal as recovery from his foundation workout)

 

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Ronnicky Roy
On 3/26/2016 at 10:44 AM, Douglas Wadle said:

In response to running form I have a few comments. I prefer low drop shoes, meaning no heel rise. I do not like vibrant 5 fingers. They are ugly and do not hold up well in the mountains.  My favorites are Inov-8 and salomon's (like the sense pro and speed cross). These are for trail running and have good grip/traction and hold up well to the rocks and scree. Wish I could say barefoot was possible here. I suppose one could train themselves, but a lot of the scree is sharp as knives, and even the native Americans weren't foolish enough to go barefoot in these environments.

Hey Douglas, actually went through the forum looking for shoe recommendations for running and came across this old thread again. In the market for new shoes. For the Inov-8's you were referring to. Were you just referring to any of their shoes are a particular trail shoe. Looking at some on amazon right now and was curious about the All Train shoes. There are alot up here like the Terra clas, Lite and so on.

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Douglas Wadle

@Ronnicky RoyI think the all train is a great shoe.  trail talon and race ultra are good as well.  Depends on how much grip you need and what terrain you'll be running.  all train would be a good all around trail shoe.  

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Ronnicky Roy

Thanks brotha man

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