a very controversial question

[williamprowse]

please dont say it works or doesnt work, i need a real answer

should i use creatine monohydrate for boosting my performance in gymnastics?

if used in small doses everyday with no loading phase will it do the male gymnast good?

does it take away hard earned flexibility?

does coach summer have his teens using this supplement or creatine?

so far my experience was taking 5 grams a day (equaliviant to what is found in a large steak naturally) and was experiencing amazing results especially with my muscle ups and handstand push ups. didnt notice any wieght gain or any other bad side affects

[Coach Sommer]

No, I do not recommend using creatine.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[langdon0555]

Creatine also has health benefits..not just sports performance. Ask Robb Wolf...one of the moderators on the board, he recommends it. Im sure he can share what it is been shown to improve. Here are some of his comments from old post on crossfit:

"Most of my creatine enamorment has NOTHING to do with performance enhancement but rather beneficial effects on blood lipids, antinflamation, and protection against neurodegenartive decline. I happen to be one of those non-responders from the strength/power perspective but it is cheap and easy to use and MIGHT be very healthy in the long run."

Robb

"In general I would agree where supplements are concerned however creatine has quite a body of research indicating that it lowers bad cholesterol, raises good cholesterol, decreases the likelyhood of CVA's (stroke) just to list a few benefits. I endorse very few suplements but creatine happenes to be one I do endorse.

It may improve ones athletecism (~ 25% of people using it are non-responders and do not receive significant performance improvement) the health benefits alone are woth the price IMO. "

I use creatine because the research is strong, plus the health benefits that it is shown to help. Its cheap. I make sure and use a brand that uses "creapure" which is a brand that is supposed to be the most pure. Ive always heard that german creatine is the purest on the market ever since it came out back in the day. creapure is a german brand. I just bought some prolab creatine which uses creapure.

casey

[williamprowse]

thats really interesting, i agree with the health benefits from the studies i have read off of other sites

from what i said earlier i took 5 grams a day and i personally think it supplements in the same way whey protein does, just a source of something good without all the fat, with creatine, instead of eating a steak that has a ton of fat, you just have creatine and whey protein and bam, you get the best of the steak just without all the fat in it

BUT one thing that i must always consider is how some people say that you can lose flexibility with it and that scares the crap out of me, if i didn't have my splits i couldn't do most of the press handstands and planches that i do because of leverage issues and would decrease my performance in gymnastics greatly, does anyone know if this is true at a dose of only 5 grams a day?

[langdon0555]

I dont think taking creatine is going to effect flexibility in anyway.

casey

[kbryk]

I'm almost sure 5 grams a day will not harm anything, but keep stretching as always and you should be fine, you are one the few people I've seen use it correctly! I'm used to seeing the meat heads at school chugging down bottles of this stuff, I've never really seen the good side of creatine nor even looked at it as being good because I'm so used to seeing people use it the stupid way, unfortunately my biceps are still bigger from all the leverage work gymnastics training has done for me! lol

[langdon0555]

Yeah taking more than 5 grams a day is pointless...even loading from what ive read and heard. Just do the 5 grams a day and you should be fine.

casey

[Blairbob]

If you are taking enough good protein in, the effects of creatine seem to diminish.

For short workouts such supplements could be use but in gymnastics, you'd burn through them too early in the workout to be of use.

[Guest Valentin]

Creatine does work simple as that.. When used correctly it is shown time and time again to boost preformance, however most studies that i have read involve weight training rather then kinesthetics as mean of training during trials.

The loading phase is relatively important because because PC in the muscle is constantly being used and created. PC (Phosphocreatine) is the first energy molecule to be used up during dynamic resistance work, to replenish that soooo needed ATP. Loading does help in that respect that you can have full stores. I don't really know how great creatine is with body weight exercise...might actually test it myself and do some research..

It have been suggested that 150 mmol creatine/kg is the maximal capacity of storage, making supplementation in excess of 20g/day pointless. (http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musintro/creatine.shtml)

Creatine is a molecule associated with with energy production, flexibility is not. There is NO way creatine will effect your flexibility unless you:

1- Put on massive bulk that actual restrictes your ROM

2- Stop stretch and just to partial heavy reps

3- Hit hit the couch more often then the gym haha.

[Blairbob]

Personally for my workouts in gym, L-glutamine before and after always seemed to work a lot better than the creatine which would just be done too early on over the course of a 2-4 hour workout.

For a workout just over an hour, it's fine enough. Still, I find L-glutamine a lot more worthwhile.

[Shaf]

The loading phase isn't really important if you are using for a long term.

Your muscles can load a finite amount of creatine. You can saturate them in, oh, say 7 days with a higher dose loading regimen, or you can take a smaller dose every day, and eventually reach full saturation in, say, 30 days.

These are just arbitrary numbers. If you want to know the exact numbers, you can do the research yourself.

In addition, creatine is used up at approximately 3% a day, when saturation is attained. This means that it takes roughly 30 days to go back to "normal" wrt to this level.

[dgibbons]

Coach, Im surprised to hear that you dont recommend creatine for adult gymnasts.

Im a beginning amateur gymnast, so obviously you would know better than I would. Would you mind elaborating on the drawbacks?

[Coach Sommer]

Long ago, when creatine first came out I personally had a bad experience with it that resulted in some stomach bleeding. It may work well for others, but not in my case.

That being said, far far too often I see people spend enormous amounts of time and money tweaking their nutritional profiles. IF you are a world class elite level athlete and need every competitive edge to increase your performance levels, this is an appropriate and wise use of resources. However if you are not (and let's be honest here; the vast majority of us are not), you would be far better served concentrating on sound nutritional basics and being consistent in your training. To this end, I recommend that you re-read the excellent nutritional advice provided in our own forum by Robb Wolf and Ido Portal. Have you removed the junk food from your diet? Do you drink too much? Are you eating enough vegetables? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting enough sunshine and fresh air?

In my opinion, too many people are constantly searching for that magical nutrition silver bullet; when in reality all that is required to achieve the vast majority of their training goals is to follow a balanced training program, some common sense, patience and consistent work with a nice helping of sweat thrown in.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Gregor]

Creatin don't makes bleeding...If we looks, how can something what is naturaly in your body and body can replicate it. Creatin is nothing than a protein (amino acid of:methionin, arginin and glycin). But the main problem is athletes work hard and body can't resyntesize enough creatin for ATP.

Loading faze is not necessary (look at new studys).

You take your creatin 5g at the moorning on empty stomach and 5g 30 minutes till the end pf training (beacuse peak activity of creatin is at one hour after eating it and protein powders is in half an hour- they get peak togheter).

But if you're not competitive gymnast it's not worth of a money.

[Coach Sommer]

From my viewpoint, whether or not studies, or other people's personal experience, show that creatine does not cause stomach bleeding is immaterial; in my case creatine supplementation did. Many years ago, I discontinued it for that reason. Whether the slight stomach bleeding was due to the creatine itself or some other impurity in that specific product is unknown. However the fact remains that when I discontinued the creatine, the slight stomach bleeding also stopped. And with the positive training effects of creatine for an athlete of my level being so marginal, it was not a hardship to set it aside.

Other people's results have obviously varied. There is no strict cookie cutter method that works equally well for everyone in every situtation; that is why coaching at a high level is an art - there are constant adaptations and adjustments that have to be made on a regular basis. The bottom line is to experiment to find what works best for you and then adhere to it.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[JoeS]

Is World Class Supplementation Necessary for the General Fitness Enthusiast?

Long ago, when creatine first came out I personally had a bad experience with it that resulted in some stomach bleeding. It may work well for others, but not in my case.

Coach Sommer,

During the early days of creatine (the 90s), there was a lot of low-quality "coarse" creatine out there, that did cause a lot of stomach problems with some people. Modern day, good quality German micronized creatine is extremely unlikely to cause problems, especially if you dissolve 5mg thoroughly in hot water or a hot cup of coffee. It really boosts recuperation, especially in adults.

Might be worth a second try !

[Coach Sommer]

During the early days of creatine (the 90s)

Perhaps it is time to change my title from Coach Sommer to Grandpa Sommer! I had just become reconciled to the 70s and 80s being the old days and now it seems that the 90s have joined in as well :roll:.

In all seriousness however, for me personally I believe I would be far better served getting my personal diet more dialed in prior to engaging in another experiment with creatine or any other supplements for that matter. Thank you for the heads up though, I had been curious about what the cause of the discrepancy might have been.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Guest Ido Portal]

Actualy, coach Charles Poliquin has just written this about creatine and stomach problems:

By the way, most of the so-called "side effects" of creatine, like gut upset, were caused by using cheap forms of creatine that contained heavy metals. For example, some of the Chinese creatines were analyzed and shown to be 97% creatine and 3% heavy metals.

I've never seen cramping, bloating, diarrhea etc. from a good quality creatine (unless of course you take way too much.) I've used the Biotest brand of German creatine for years with no problems .