Been on RC/PE1 for 20 months - help!

1 hour ago, Cameron Williams said:

To be honest, I don't see the value in it. Form and tempo can be seen on the standard course videos. I receive excellent (and much needed!) guidance on the forum on these two variables. Rep counts seem to need my own personal tweaking, as per the above conversation. 

The GB+ videos helped me see that I was taking a little too much time between sets, but I've fixed that now.

That's my reasoning anyways.... but I'm open to changing my perspective. Am I missing something here?

Edit: some of the issues Sean just mentioned were a factor for me too. Scheduler/video errors that I had to message Cory about (who was always very helpful) were a bit of a pain, and the CAD/USD exchange rate is a factor for me too. That said, it's not like I won't spend money on this stuff... I've been to a live seminar in Seattle (travelling from Vancouver), and have invested in F1, H1, and Thrive, and been very pleased with everything so far.

 

 

If I understand the program properly it would have caught the fact you were not progressing with your RC  reps and sets a long time ago. Saved you time and frustration.  It would have automatically adjusted  your sets and reps based on the GB coaches approach on how to handle it. One of the reasons I liked it, I'm assuming such as the advice Zach gave. 

If I'm correct it will continue to adjust until such time you succeed. but if you continue to fail the adjustments I believe the GB coaches will be able to see  your workout logs and further tweak your approach should you need additional help. Hence why I think it's refered to as a "smart" program. So not just a electronic version  of replacing paper and pencil.  

Watching the vids also help remind of form cues and helps to self check during the follow along vids. 

you could consider experimenting with this program to see how it deals with your RC issue to see if worth it? But Zach's advice is sound as well there's no doubt.

Not trying to sell you on it just some of the advantages I noticed in my time of using it. To each their own. 

Damn you guys, my gut tells me you're right.

Coach hasn't steered me wrong yet, so why would it be any different here. After throwing a tantrum in my head about this, I realized that I didn't give it a fair shake, nor did I do it as prescribed (aka, following along each and every workout).

Ahhhhhh the humility continues.

I'll be re-activating my subscription now. 

40 minutes ago, Cameron Williams said:

Damn you guys, my gut tells me you're right.

Coach hasn't steered me wrong yet, so why would it be any different here. After throwing a tantrum in my head about this, I realized that I didn't give it a fair shake, nor did I do it as prescribed (aka, following along each and every workout).

Ahhhhhh the humility continues.

I'll be re-activating my subscription now. 

 awesome, I've been there and will be again.....

Coaches mug shot for his night job would be Heisenberg. Hence why so convincing and why you just can't have a little taste...there's no turning back once you do... 

So back to the RC questions... I went back and looked at the Pro+ video, and the tempo is much faster than the regular F1 course video. The Pro+ video pace is 3 reps in about 5-6 seconds. The regular F1 video is 3 reps in about 11-12 seconds. That's a pretty big difference. My tempo in the above form check actually matches the Pro+ video quite well, but some of the advice suggests I should slow down.

For this kind of discrepancy, which one is the gold standard?

Course videos are always the gold standard

So it's conceivable that I could master an exercise according to the Pro+ video standards but not regular course video standards?

Why are they different?

On March 16, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Cameron Williams said:

So it's conceivable that I could master an exercise according to the Pro+ video standards but not regular course video standards?

Why are they different?

You are trying to overthink it. There isn't an 'official' tempo for mastery standards, simply that you control the rep with good form. 

Got it. Thanks Cory

On March 16, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Cory Fair said:

You are trying to overthink it. There isn't an 'official' tempo for mastery standards, simply that you control the rep with good form. 

Cory- Not sure there isn't a little confusion around an "official tempo". I've been reading some posts under the GBpro thread and its seems the consensus is that the gold standard for form is the course vids but to also have mastery you need to keep up with Orench in the vids for pacing eventually. Coach specifically said under the GB pro thread that the purpose of GB pro is to make sure everyone is mastering "in terms of execution, tempo and level of effort". Which sounds like he's asking us to eventually do as Orench does to qualify for mastery once form is perfected. If the thats not the case perhaps outlining this somewhere permanently might be helpful for reference and end the confusion....or perhaps it's mine alone?

Cam- As Cory said you start with the course vid as the standard for form. As form improves then theoretically you should be able to perform it at the tempo Orench does. Perfect form then tempo I would think is the idea. Course vids are slower I believe to help people see it done. Doing it fast would suck as a study reference for the uninitiated.  The course material states that poor form or missed time holds don't count. Hence why this is so important. 

There's no confusion to be had, follow along with Orench as shown and test mastery with best form and effort. When it comes to mastery, course videos are gold standard but having some deviance in rep tempo while still having correct form and effort isn't what's holding most students back. What's far more concerning is the number of workout logs where less than best effort is given.

As an example, this morning I saw a RCPE1 log where Monday 4x15 was done and Friday only had 4x12. With three days of recovery in between. If Coach Sommer was standing there those missing 12 reps (an entire set worth!) would be found quite quickly. This is what Pro+ is about, making workouts as close as possible to training with Coach or Orench. It's going to be a challenge to 'do and not view' the videos. But a very rewarding one.

5 minutes ago, Cory Fair said:

There's no confusion to be had, follow along with Orench as shown and test mastery with best form and effort. When it comes to mastery, course videos are gold standard but having some deviance in rep tempo while still having correct form and effort isn't what's holding most students back. What's far more concerning is the number of workout logs where less than best effort is given.

As an example, this morning I saw a RCPE1 log where Monday 4x15 was done and Friday only had 4x12. With three days of recovery in between. If Coach Sommer was standing there those missing 12 reps (an entire set worth!) would be found quite quickly. This is what Pro+ is about, making workouts as close as possible to training with Coach or Orench. It's going to be a challenge to 'do and not view' the videos. But a very rewarding one.

Understood, thank you. Hence the "effort" comment by Coach, I get it. Now to digest in fear the idea that you potentially will be looking at my workout logs at some point.  That alone will put a hot poker up my butt at next workout.

Apologies if I muddied the waters at all...appreciate the response. 

Alright, so I did my first Pro+ workout today after re-subscribing, and I must say, it kicked my ass! Following the pace for my FL and HBP exercises was significantly harder than I was used to. And even though my numbers actually went down for these exercises, I felt like I pushed myself harder than normal, so I was pleased with that.

My RC/PE1 numbers actually went up 4 reps since my last workout. I think it's a combination of adjusting my form, and doing supplemental work, as was suggested above.

I'm looking forward to working with Pro+ over the coming months.

And Coach was right! (surprise) There is a significant difference between just "viewing" the videos and actually following along rep for rep.

Thanks again everyone for your help and encouragement.

Cam

Yup Cam, that's what I found for a lot of my PEs and surprisingly having to either back up or loose perceived/actually rep/set ground doesn't upset me either like you discovered. You actually feel good about it and even crazier...only want more and to work harder yet. Now I'm convinced Coach is some kind of calisthenic crack dealer cause these reactions make no sense!

Great to hear about your RC Cam. Keep up the good work. Your description of following the vids is exactly the response i think they would like to hear.

I got through this progression by following 2 pieces of advice I saw on the forum:

1. Complete the reps even if you fail by taking a pause to recover.

2. 50% sets on off days.

Those two items together saw me complete 5*15 reps in about 2-3 weeks (I forget exactly and I don't record my log) when my starting point was similar to yours.

That's awesome Mark - very encouraging. I wish I did it in 3 weeks as opposed to 20 months! But oh well, live and learn.

Cheers man

Cam

Edit - Mark, did you do 50% sets on every off day? Like if you're on the 3-day F1 template, you were doing 50% sets 4 days/week?

Hey Zach, what's your thoughts on using the bent leg version I saw on the Facebook page dated March 8? My thinking is instead of taking a break, move legs in and finish the set just to keep the momentum? Seems like a plausible way to learn the patterning then extend the legs. Obviously these modified ones wouldn't count as reps. 

Just to report back, I'm already making progress on this element, which I'm very pleased about.

I adjusted my form as recommended above, and started doing the off-day half volume sets, plus finishing out failed sets after a short break.

Just now I got 15,15,15,14,8 at the Pro+ pace. To me that's a huge step forward from the 15,15,12,9 that I was getting when I started this post.

Thanks again everybody. Looking forward to finally beating this one!

Cam

Awesome stuff Cam! I too am back on the Gbpro wagon.:.it feels good. Thank you, you helped me decide.  

Zach- tried those bent leg RCs and I like them. Takes an appropriate amount of weight off for me so I can focus and hold the top position and get just enough hang time to make sure I'm in position correctly and stay there a bit to learn it.   Good way for me to do extra work after sets without making my buggy shoulder hurt more. If you ask me I think these would be real helpful to the unitiated to this move that are needing to build strength and skill. A way to lighten it up to focus on it without burning out too quick holding the top. The hassle is having to change your ring height but I hinge like a mad tiger doing it this way. Not sure if the mechanics of doing it this way will mess with the  straight leg version that I'm doing for the workouts? 

now off to sign up for Thrive...after all I'm a GB crack head....it love me long time....

That's great to hear man... keep posting about how it goes for you!

Have fun with Thrive too.. I'm just finishing now, and it's been a great program.. I'm very pleased, and will be signing up for subsequent levels as soon as they come out

sure...have a bit to go before I get to where you are but I'm working on it. I'm a bit more sore having added the bent leg extra. Have to watch I don't push the recovery to much or all gets off track.  

Good to know about Thrive. Nutrition courses can be either really good or not. Seems this one is like a cognitive behavioural therapy approach. Pretty smart actually. Very effective in changing negative habits or thinking if so. 

On March 17, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Zach Armijo said:

I have mixed feelings on such things as this. You could try to apply the same path to push ups, and just complete them on your knees, but I would not prefer it.

If you are already capable of doing the Hinge Rows, then just stick with them in the delayed sets.

On the other side of the coin however, Coach never thought it was necessary to break down hollow holds further until his seminars in AU. Working the mechanical advantage reps have their place.

In all things good and right, try it out and report back to us...for science!

Hey Zach so I was cued up to do my RC and my rings were set to the height of those bent leg versions. So I thought id give it a try to see and it worked out to be the exact height They needed to be for the normal versions. At least it  Must have been cause I knocked out my sets this time with little hassle and better form. Not easy but felt way more natural. Just an FYI. Have to come back slowly on these do to past injury but I'm a happy camper today.  Looking forward to making some real headway on these. 

Cam- you past these yet? 

Yep, Pro+ again whooped me on RC/PE1. Looks like I've got some refinement in order before making further progress.

In what way Daniel?

The pace was way faster than I could handle. I went back this week to review my PE1 elements, some were still a cake walk with minor bumps (SL/PE1, FL/PE1), HBP/PE1 is and was never that challenging. But SLS/PE1, MN/PE1, and RC/PE1 smoked me even though at one point in time I had them pretty significantly mastered. Having moved into later progressions and having revisited these for more than just a set or two of warmup made me realize that the mobilities were lacking a little bit. As well as my endurance, so going to hone that in over this block and see how it goes. Nothing too abhorrent I'm at step 7 but still the foundations need to be solid before I move on.

Hey Sean - not past these yet. Making progress though. Today I got 15,15,15,14,10. When I started this post I was getting 15,15,12,9. So even in the first four sets I've improved by 8 reps. 

Ill definitely post once I master this!

Daniel, I may follow your lead and re test mastery on some earlier elements. I think this is a great idea.