ThomasJG Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Hello all,Just thought I would introduce myself. My name is Tom and I am a bboy turned circus handbalancer. I think your forum is a fantastic resource and I really enjoy the atmosphere on this board. I have been practicing the planche and made great progress with your article coach sommer so Thank you very much.I have a few questions relating to some moves I have been having troble with:The first is the Vsit.I am unsure why I have trouble with the vsit, I am positive I have the ab strength necessary for it, I can hold an Lsit for over 60 seconds. I have noticed when people perform a vsit correctly, there hips are pressed far forward in front of there hands, where as when I do mine, my hips are in line with my hands and my upper body is leaning backwards and it feels incorrect and I am never able to achieve the vertical position. I have tried to press them forward but I just cant manage it. I was wondering if there are things to think about whilst doing the move or if there are drills to help me progress to a proper vsit?My second question is about the mana and hand positions.I noticed that I have never seen an athlete do a mana with hands facing forwards. I have made some progress with the middle split hold with my hands facing forwards but when I turn them around to face backwards I cant even lift up my hips at all. this makes me think I am doing it wrong facing forwards? Is it possible to do a mana with hands facing forward?Ill come up with more questions as I run into themThanks in advance for your help.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Tom. It sounds like you need to work on active pike flexibility compression. That is one of the keys to the V-sit and manna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I have noticed when people perform a vsit correctly, there hips are pressed far forward in front of there hands, where as when I do mine, my hips are in line with my hands and my upper body is leaning backwardsFocusing on horizontal middle split holds (MSH) should correct your current issues with the Vsit.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Van Bockxmeer Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I can testify to this. With only a small amount of work done on the middle split hold I find little difficulty in raising the legs up to a V and holding for several seconds. It will prepare your triceps like mad, if you can do a full leg lift then you can put 2 + 2 together.Manna on the other hand, now that will be a long journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasJG Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thank you guys, I will focus more time on the horizontal middle split hold. I will post an update if the problem is corrected soon.Also, Hand positioning in the mana? Does anyone out there do a mana with hands facing forwards? Ive personally never seen it but it feels more comfortable for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hand positioning in the mana? Does anyone out there do a mana with hands facing forwards? Ive personally never seen it but it feels more comfortable for meInitially, when the elevation of your MSH is quite low, you will find that hands forward is more comfortable. However as the height increases toward a manna, most people find that hands backward is then more comfortable.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seiji Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 As a strength exercise for your v sit and manna, I suggest doing an l sit and leaning back. Your hips can be in line with your hands, but make sure that your arms are at an angle backwards instead of up and down. I inverted the colors because of terrible lighting. Oh, and can I patent this exercise as the V-Lean? I realize I'm in a v sit while I do this, before saying anything. Like so: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasJG Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks for your help seji,but Leaning back will not help me achive the correct anlge of a Vsit. A Vsit should have the legs at 90 degrees to the floor or even more (coming back towards your face). In order to do this you must press your hips forward to stay in balance and you should not lean backwards.My shape is getting better when I do a few middle split holds before trying a vsit, thanks coach.If anyone could answer my question about hand positioning and the mana, I would appreciate it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Your hand position has been answered by Coach Sommer already, a few posts up on this thread. To paraphrase, he said that it is a matter of personal comfort, but that most athletes he knows switch to a fingers back position once they get further along, like past the v-sit-like position in between HMSH and actual manna. In the beginning it appears most people do better with fingers forward.That's another way of saying exactly what Coach said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seiji Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 It's a strengthening exercise for when you need to start pushing forward with your hips. Leaning back really helps your triceps and back deltoid. You could try on rings.I'd put a picture but even with inverted colors it can't be seen. Too dark in my house D: I'll get some pics tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 As a strength exercise for your v sit and manna, I suggest doing an l sit and leaning back.This is incorrect. Leaning back during V-sit and manna training will eventually allow you to build up to an incorrect 1/2 to 3/4 ROM V-sit, but the manna will remain forever out of reach. To achieve the manna, you must focus on pressing the hips forward.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasJG Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Oops sorry, i missed that post entirely.Thanks everyone for your help.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seiji Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Technique wise, I see it would form a bad habit, but are you sure it wouldn't work for strengthening, Coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Technique wise, I see it would form a bad habit, but are you sure it wouldn't work for strengthening, Coach?As far as the manna is concerned; positive. The issue is that it is easier to simply lean back, feel the burn in the triceps and pretend to yourself that you are progressing toward a manna. When in actuality nothing of the sort is occuring.That being said, once you are much stronger and have mastered your basics, you are correct in your assumption that that type of movement could be useful in beginning to build victorian strength. However, as always, you should be aware that you must walk before you can run. Attempting to build gymnastics strength skills out of order will usually lead only to frustration and unnecessary injury.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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