Limbering: Examples and How to?

I have some limbering, focussed questions I have thought about for a while.
As someone with significant mobility deficits limiting the early stages of Gymnastic Strength Training™, my biggest questions are about limbering;  specifically how this can be utilized to be the most productive towards building Foundation progress.
I can wrap my head around the concrete guidelines of Foundations, Handstand, and stretch series. However, limbering seems a bit more elusive, to me as a beginner at least, in how to exactly incoorperate into daily practice.  (I do understand the importance of not having black and white examples however, as everyone is so different)

2 epic posts stick out in my mind that touch upon limbering.

- Coach's post in a Handstand 3 discussion that still resonates in my mind regarding effort and how to structure/tackle training:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/22262-handstand-three-has-been-released/page-2

- And Cory's recent post:

 https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/23257-stalled/

I don`t want to waste time with ineffective limbering. At one time, my limbering was probably as pathetic as my dog`s stretch: you know, the light 5 second stretch when you get up from desk work?

I am looking for some feedback and would like to share a little what I have done to try and have scheduled focus on my limbering to improve Foundation progressions:
I do not know if this is correct but I individualized limbering with a mindset of my current, beginning level elements.

Example:

Limber current level Integrated Mobility elements:
Duration:  1 minute each (about 7 minutes) for a set. (Example 1 min table rocks from FL, then 1 minute swivel hips from sPL, 1 min Windmill from MN, ect) - gentle, and nonweighted.
Intensity: Enough to "dust off the cobwebs" touching into my current range, but not hard enough to impact any foundation or handstand workout.
Frequency: 5x/day,  (>30min total/day) spread out over long periods.
So, this looks like:
~A 7 min set in morning, 3 at work, 1 in pm.

Am I way off base here?
Any other examples of daily limbering programs/guidelines that assists your current Foundation/HS levels?

Limber Combinations:
Also, at times, I try and combine "favorite" current iMs. Example, I try and think about "cat/cow, scap shrugs/rolls, pelvic and thoracic mobilities" into my current integrated mobility focus.
An example below of my current focus is rehabing seated cross leg positions and thoracic/scapular mobility for HS PE1.


 https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=aiJIlI8Rv3o

Any feedback... daily limbering examples?  I know advanced members might not want to share daily limbering routines in fear of beginners copying, but its ok, we won`t do that ;-)
Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan Bailey said:

 I know advanced members might not want to share daily limbering routines in fear of beginners copying, but its ok, we won`t do that ;-)

 

I don't think they would mind if we copied, but i think it will be that we can't do them lol.

This may be one of those things that requires listening to your own body. You know where your body is lacking, and you have all the tools - exercises and stretches - to get the job done. You start somewhere, then just kind of go where the flow takes you. If you pay enough attention to your body, you will know where to go next. It will probably be different every time you do it. Lets say you start with a standing straddle stretch. After that, you feel you'd benefit from more time there, going side to side, or some dynamic bounces. Maybe the next day, you start with the standing straddle, but you feel good and feel like doing a rocking table next. The possibilities are literally infinite, which is why it's so important to learn to listen to your body. Think of it like stream of consciousness writing, or musically improvising, or meditating. It's much the same process. People who need rigid structure tend to have trouble with this. Perhaps after a while of this, you start repeating yourself over and over, settling on a routine that works perfect for you. And you keep it until you feel like there could be a better one, and you repeat. Sure, someone could give you a routine, but then you wouldn't learn how to listen to your body

Bottom line, just limber. Don't be so worried about doing it wrong that you skip it. Just set aside a few minutes each day and do something, and you will be doing it right.

Hey Ryan,

I have similar issues and concerns. I'm one to overdo it and overcompensate but have recently dialed it back. First off, I think that limbering should be highly subjective, in that if you have deficits or specific mobility weak points (for me my thoracic spine and shoulders) then that should be what you focus on and put as your priority in any limbering endeavors. So, as a result, I focus on stretching my lats, my chest, and my thoracic spine primarily helps progress in a lot of other areas (some of these I've received from my physical therapist while also the pancake shoulder twist stretch is profoundly easier with loosened lats).

A good starting point is yoga. Yoga is a nice flow and simply put does well to loosen up or 'limber'. Outside the scope of gymnastics, yes, but I don't think anyone would argue against the benefits that yoga provides in terms of flexibility. The app Yoga Studio is great for this and I used it for a long time when I was still living in Africa/prior to coming to GB. Additionally, here's a very simple gif of a sun salutation, that I've been doing in the morning for about 5-10 minutes. It's straightforward and effective: https://media.giphy.com/media/xTcnSMAsv4GK6iTnXO/giphy.gif

Another option is foam rolling. You can read aplenty about SMFR and its benefits through a quick google search, though I'm sure with your PT background you're already quite familiar with this. 

Lastly, I also follow a short routine. In the evenings on days when I'm not doing any of the stretch series I take some of the areas of mobility that are more difficult for me from the stretch series and work on them for about 30-60 seconds per stretch. Some examples are the different seiza, couch, and hurdler stretches from FSs; butterfly (on block) and piriformis stretches from MSs; (a modified) seated shoulder extension, elevated cat, capsule, and knees by the ear stretches from TBs; the side chest stretches (A, T, Y) from the HBP progressions/online courses; and then child pose with a lean (similar to RC/PE2-im except performed in child's pose) to open up my very, very tight lats. I try to do these not too intensely but just enough to feel the stretch and loosen up a bit. I have a hard time remembering that with stretching the aim is to loosen and not damage, whilst with the strength elements it's much more about pushing yourself. This again is what I do and what works for me as these are the things that I know I need to work on.

I hope this gives you some ideas or things to play with. My suggestions would be to throw in some yoga asanas as a morning wake-up or evening cooldown as they usually transition well from position to position and are somewhat self-correcting if something is too difficult. I would also say that playing around with certain stretches from either Foundation -ims or the stretch series themselves and doing them with less intensity or for sets could be helpful. 

Edit: If you want me to post my specific morning and evening routines I can do so.

I pretty much start from my hands and work my way down to my feet, doing a combination of stretching and unweighted ims. Some combinations work really well as a bit of a flow into the next; some are just facilitators, eg doing table rocks before dropping the hips and getting down into shoulder extension. A bit of variety over the course of the week is great; adding bits through the day where possible to hammer on stubborn areas is even better, because a portion of mobility is motor learning over physical changes

Jon Douglas said:

, because a portion of mobility is motor learning over physical changes

Well said Jon!

This is what guides my limbering work. The stretch series is were I seek to increase absolute ROM, my limbering work is meant to address the 'skill' aspects of mobility and counteract the daily negative training of sitting. I use two different  30 min sequences of iMs, one each for upper and lower body, and perform them on alternating days. They are all performed for reps, focusing on muscle activation while moving through my available ROM. I'm also experimenting with a small set of negatives for NLE and NLC on alternating days  after reading some articles on the effect of eccentrics on muscle length. I also have a hunch eccentrics effectiveness on addressing tendinopathy is partly due to neurological factors. Something to be cautious with regardless.

Oops! Not sure how I managed to put my comment in with your quote Jon, but my apologies.

Brett, very interesting. I'm sure I could pick your brain plenty regarding your limbering specifics. However, I want to focus on your eccentrics and muscle length comment since you brought it up. I also have given this a go and have dug into the research regarding achilles tendon rehab and patellar tendinopathy, but I focus it on the arch body hold positions for myself; thoracic pulls, prone on the floor, with a pulley up and forward overhead. I find > half body weight, ~55 kg, 2 sets of 5 reps, gives enough stimulus for change with overhead reach, flexion and protraction.

Any thoughts?

Which eccentrics are you doing?

Ryan, so a movement like TBs/SE11, but with a weighted cable from above, as opposed to a band behind? Thats creative! I think I will set that up and give it a try tomorrow.

Right now I've included into my limbering 1 set of 5 negatives for natural leg curl and natural leg extension. I use a band from my chest to my stall bars to moderate the NLC negatives. I've been doing this 2 times a week for 3 weeks, so early days. It feels fairly conservative, right now I'm hanging out at Hawaiian squats due to bad external rotation, so my legs have enjoyed the extra work from the limbering sessions. Especially the NLE negatives, my quads are tight and they love these.

Speaking of tight external rotators,I do a set of 10 twisting squats as part of my limber and I've considered putting the weight vest on and attempting to do some slow negatives to assist my progress, but I guess I'm not that desperate yet

I don't know if this is going to apply to you, Ryan, but I'll throw in a couple thoughts. I think the best thing to do for some of us is identify our weak spots, come up with a limbering routine that takes us through general mobility with a some extra attention to those weak/tight spots, and then simply practice that regularly without overthinking the whole thing or worrying about the perfect combination. You know your deficits. Make a plan and follow it. Doesn't need to be complicated, we have all the tools we need. It's great if one can play it loose and go by feeling alone, but I think some of us start to second-guess ourselves or let focus meander without a specific ritual. Certainly happened to me many times and still does. That's why we like Coach's product, it removes the guesswork and hastens progress. And that's why people keep asking about an "official" limbering routine recommendation.

A lot of insightfull feedback. Good to hear there is no official, underground limbering protocol I was missing out on. Makes sense that everyone would have their own combinations that work well in their own life situation and specific training progress.

Bottom line I will apply: train coach`s courses, get off my ass multiple times throughout the day for some limbering :-)

Thanks,

Ryan

BrettCross said:

Ryan, so a movement like TBs/SE11, but with a weighted cable from above, as opposed to a band behind? Thats creative! I think I will set that up and give it a try tomorrow.

 

Right now I've included into my limbering 1 set of 5 negatives for natural leg curl and natural leg extension. I use a band from my chest to my stall bars to moderate the NLC negatives. I've been doing this 2 times a week for 3 weeks, so early days. It feels fairly conservative, right now I'm hanging out at Hawaiian squats due to bad external rotation, so my legs have enjoyed the extra work from the limbering sessions. Especially the NLE negatives, my quads are tight and they love these.

 

Speaking of tight external rotators,I do a set of 10 twisting squats as part of my limber and I've considered putting the weight vest on and attempting to do some slow negatives to assist my progress, but I guess I'm not that desperate yet

Yes Brett, like this:

I have to add a little weighted work of all the anterior antagonist muscles that impair thoracic bridge. I am so tight I can not even do the final key exercises in the thoracic bridge series. I am not exactly a spring chicken anymore, so I find some supplimental weighted mobility work after the stretch series helps some of the build up of tight muscles over the years. Also, I use this same exercise with a lower load and much faster tempo, 30-40 reps prior to hanstand session days in warm up. I find it loosens up pec minor, subscap, ant chest/obliques ect. Just feels good to me where I am at right now.

Limbering is actually pretty similar to your dog's five-second stretching. When I'm limbering for a given position, I generally either count to five (which ends up being ~15-20s), or do 5-10 bounces. Generally my limbering session will take ~10-15 minutes, though that's with additional mobility work thrown in. Here's a smattering of some things I do while limbering:

10x forward arm circles

10x backward arm circles

10x german arm swings

10x 2pike2squat

5x lunge bounces (hard to describe these, but suffice to say it's a psoas/hip flexor stretch pose)

10x cherry pickers

5-count pancake hold

5-count cat stretch

5-count one-leg pike (both legs)

5-count pike

Nice example Joshua; tried it a few times and feels great.

I always thought that dogs were onto something as they:

1) Sleep 14-16 hours/day,

2) Don't have to work for money,

3) Play whenever they want,

4) Sucker us humans into feeding them every meal, and now...

5) I find out they limber correctly ;-)