iM1 form check

Hello guys! I was wondering how this looks: https://vid.me/PNi4. I do realize he isn't hollowing enough, but what should he work on aside from the hollow body.

1. I wouldn't let him lean forward until he is hollow.

2. Focus on keeping it static, with much less fidgeting.

3. Keep the wrists straight.

These are 3 bad habits that need to be replaced with good ones. Once fixed, it will also be clearer where his shoulder flexion is.

Flex abs to avoid arching, ribs should be pulled in. At some points like here - http://prntscr.com/97mrsx he started to rotate his shoulders, you can see this by his scapula sticking out to sides and looking huge and by his elbows turning out. He is new to this proper shoulder flexion way of doing this exercise and as shoulder flexion gets hard to hold he starts to rotate his shoulders to make it easier, that why i would say he should work on longer holds with less lean and 100% proper shoulder flexion for some time (short period, maybe a week) so he remamber this position and in future knows when he is not holding it properly.

I would say his initial position is not bad, except for the hyperextended wrists (which is most likely a compensation pattern to shorten the lever of his arms, making the exercise easier). From there though it gets continually worse as he arches his back in an attempt to increase shoulder Flexion. Whether this was due to fatigue, or him again attempting to "cheat" greater ROM than his current strength/mobility allows by compensating via spinal extension is hard to say.

How is that rotation? His elbows are facing each other and his scapula are not retracting..

1) First things first, lets just get him to be able to be steady, before worrying about fixing everything.

I think the dangling weights are making it even harder for him to stay still; tape them horizontally along the bar so they aren't wiggling around.

2) Basic shoulder position is fine.

3) Please, just use one thread to follow this element, you've got so many threads that it's too much too follow, and too much input.

I wouldn't say he was rotating, more so arching to compensate. The scapulae should "Upwardly rotate" which means that the bottom edge will swing outwards making them stick out to the sides. Look at any picture of a fully open/flexed shoulder and you will see that. What you don't want is to "dislocate."

Keegan said:

The scapulae should "Upwardly rotate" which means that the bottom edge will swing outwards making them stick out to the sides.

Scapula should not rotate at all. I did this exercise with pure shoulder flexion for 6 months until i mastered it and it opened my shoulders tremendously.

Here is some qoutes which could help:

Coach Sommer said:

- At shoulder width to only slightly wider there is very little dislocation that is going to occur, regardless of how hard you try. Nor is rotation something you should pursue with this particular exercise.

- Focus on maximizing the shoulder flexion.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Several points:

1) Narrow your grip quite a bit until it is at shoulder width.

2) Do not allow your shoulders to rotate. You should be focusing on pure shoulder flexion.

3) Lean forward with a flat back into the stretch and then pull the shoulders backward into your fullest degree of extension - while maintaining the flat back forward lean.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Do not confuse this iM with weighted dislocate work; which begins wide and works in. This particular iM should always be performed to as close to shoulder width as possible.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

I mean get those hands in! Wider than shoulder width does not stress the traps appropriately for increasing flexion.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

It's the shoulders that shouldn't rotate, scapula should rotate upwards, this is the overhead equivalent of protraction

Pafke said:

Scapula should not rotate at all. I did this exercise with pure shoulder flexion for 6 months until i mastered it and it opened my shoulders tremendously.

Here is some qoutes which could help:

There is some disconnect between what I am saying and your understanding of biomechanical terms.

There are essentially 6 movements that the scapulae can perform:

1) Elevation (scapulae remain straight up and down and lift towards the top of the head)

2) Depression (scapulae remain straight up and down and lower towards the feet)

3) Protraction (scapulae remain straight up and down and pull apart)

4) Retraction (scapulae remain straight up and down and pull together)

5) Upward Rotation (top position of scapulae pull together while bottom position pull apart, this is what occurs during overhead movements/shoulder Flexion/Abduction)

6) Dowward Rotation (top portion of scapulae pull apart while bottom position pull together, this is what happens during shoulder Extension/Adduction

During shoulder Flexion the scapulae must Upwardly Rotate, it is physically impossible to fully flex the shoulders without doing so. Look it up in any Kinesiology/Biomechanics text if you still don't believe me/understand.

What Coach is saying to avoid is "dislocating" which is internal rotation of the Glenohumeral joint along with retraction and downward rotation of the scapulae.

How is this? He is purposefully not leaning to get proper flexion first. He is also tucking ribs in as much as is possible at his stage.

What about this? He tried different cues

In first picture everithing is as it should be, add a bit of lean just enought to feel lats pulling stick back.

In second picture his scapula is clearly rotated.

Okay, I was just making sure, in this thread: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/11021-seated-shoulder-flex-form-check/, the guy had clearly rotated shoulders but Coach said form was good?

Yes, guy on course video is doing the same and that is what confuses all of uss. Im not sure what is REAL correct way of doing this exercise but i know that making it without rotation of shoulders make result in many cases. I really would like to hear coach speaking why guy on course video rotates his shoulder and we are told to do this exercise with only pure shoulder flexion.

Probably just a filming mistake (posted wrong video). I am not sure about that, but maybe it's best to work with protraction because that's what PE5 and the rest of the series require, and it's best for long-term progress . You might cheat in the beginning but you can't get away with retraction in 30 second holds if you want a hollow body.

First, I'm making this the main thread for the form check Thanks Cole! Second, I think he's improved, aside from lean this is fine right?

Looks good to me, but wait to hear an official response.

Yes that looks good. 

Is he able to hold it steady? In the video you posted he was moving around quite a bit.

It's a weight plate so he's a bit steadier, but I'll post a video from maybe today or tomorrow's session later

Good by me. How's it feel?

A little hard on the traps, but he's adapting over time  

He is unable to lean any more, what should he do?

Well, he can lean a lot with 2 pounds, maybe even with 3 or 4, is that okay? Does he need to achieve the exercise with a 5 pound weight to move on?

Just adding in, what we think is his best form yet