veganism in gymnasts

[Ronnicky Roy]

There is literally no nutrients that a vegan diet offers that you cannot get on an omnivorous diet easier. Vitamin D, just get sun light. Eat some fish and mushrooms or D fortified milk. Omega 3, if you're eating fish you're covered otherwise you should supplement(but you don't have to and getting fish to eat is easy). Magnesium, make sure you eat plants like kale. Zinc, almonds and meat. Glucose? Get some fruit or bread. Calcium, milk again. And vitamin D is what allows for your body to even use Calcium. That's why milk is a good source because it offers both in one drink along with fats to better transport the nutrients. Can you work around that on a vegan diet? Yes, but it's difficult. The only omega 3 options you have is from nuts which is ALA and not EPA/DHA which is what the brain uses. Or phytoplankton and that is a grey area for vegans. But even if you go that route it only offers 5% of omega 3s you would get from fish oil from fish or supplements.

Vitamin K is difficult to get on a vegan diet. I won't say b12, because most vegans use the carbs and sugars from fruits for energy.

The only thing against an omnivore diet health wise isn't even really against the diet it's more individualized. Like lactose intolerance or gluten intolerance or fructose intolerance (yes that is a thing and people who have it can die from eating fruit). Any way you slice it, an omnivore diet is better because of the variety it offers. Can you do well on vegan? Yes you can. Is it harder? Most likely, unless your genetic makeup does best with mostly plants for your carb sources. Is it perfect for everyone? No, some people function better with more fat in their diet like humans from west African cultures who have adapted to eating mostly fat. Or northern tribes men like Eskimos who are the same way. Fat is easier to get from animals. And there's just not always access to vegan fat sources all over the world. If a person has crohns disease they can't eat fruit meaning on a vegan diet there is no sugar source aside from breads which is fattening and makes you sleepy because of the neurotransmitters it stimulates for sleep. It's dinner food.

[Matthew Jefferys]

I've said this in at least a couple of previous nutrition threads, but the B12 argument does not stand. Answer cut and pasted from other thread: However, as stated, vegans do need to supplement with B12 as the consequences of low B12 are not just inconvenient but can be dire if left long enough. Please note that this is not a shortcoming of, or an indicator that veganism is 'unnatural'. Humans used to get all the B12 they needed from water and dirt on food created by the microbiota living within. With the advent of water treatment/chlorination and modern food processing etc, we have reduced/eliminated things like cholera (which you don't want) but also B12. B12 is not produced by animals, but by the gut bacteria living therein which is why you get B12 from animal foods. Our own gut bacteria creates B12, but it is created lower in the intestinal tract and can not be absorbed at that point by the body. However, if you were to eat your own faeces, you would then be able to absorb the B12 you produced.

 

I'm genuinely interested in your assertion that healthy omnivores live longer than vegans. Do you mean healthy vegans or just vegans? Certainly vegans who don't get enough B12 can have higher homocysteine levels (inflammatory) which effectively cancels out any benefit of eating vegan and results in a similar cardiovascular risk profile as omnivores. So assertions of superiority of omnivore vs vegan need to be qualified!

That first paragraph sounds highly, highly dubious. I have never, ever heard of cobalamin-producing microbial strains existing on their own in water or dirt that is at all relevant to us, nor has the possibility that those microbes existed in the human gut ever been presented in my studies. That also completely disagrees with the fact that people who live in areas without sanitation (tribal/nomadic populations) also develop cobalamin deficiency when they don't have access to meat due to environmental issues or poverty. Many African children have cobalamin deficiency, because their families can only manage a few crops to sustain themselves, but can't afford or look after livestock. I think the idea that cobalamin-producing microbes existed in the human gut already would have been a very important point for my lecturers to mention. They went on about cobalamin only being derived from animal sources and nothing else, so I don't know how this information escaped qualified scientists with degrees and global experience in their field. Moreover, as far as I've been told, cobalamin-producing bacteria are found in cow stomachs because they are ruminants, and don't exist in human stomachs simply because they can't survive in our digestive system. It is so alien to that of a cow/chicken/pig/sheep/fish, that it can't possibly thrive/exist for any relevant period of time. If you could cite that, I would much appreciate it. Then I could give a stern talking-to to a PhD (and won't that be fun?)

 

Here's an explanation of the Healthy User Bias (just the Wiki definition): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias

Your post seems to indicate that you think inflammation is a disease in itself, and inherently bad. It would take me months of lectures to explain why this isn't true, but just for the moment you'll have to believe me when I say that inflammation is actually a good thing in many, or even most, cases. It is the cause of set inflammation that can be beneficial or detrimental. Exercise causes acute inflammation, yet it improves one's health. Inflammation is simply a response to a stimulus, and while homocysteine levels have been correlated with increased heart disease, this does not mean that this is the cause of set disease. It could easily be the effect. Though homocysteine can cause endothelial damage, and it likely contributes. Though this doesn't explain the slightly lower heart disease rates in vegetarians.

 

The Healthy User Bias is such an issue with veganism because if you were to compare non-health conscious omnivores with non-health conscious vegans, you'd be comparing a lot of dead vegans to a lot of living people. Veganism is finnicky enough that if you completely ignore proper variety requirements in your diet, you can easily die. If you were to just eat kale all the time, you would die. That's an example of a non-health conscious vegan. Fruitarianism is another. They are often 'health conscious' but their diet is so strange and restrictive that it is even more difficult to avoid nutritional deficiencies. Many people have come close to dying by following the FreeLee banana diet, and there's even a petition out against her.

 

Here's a fairly good article that mentions some of the studies I wanted to cite: http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/meat.htm

There are others I'd like to mention, but they only appear in textbooks, not online, and it's the weekend so I don't have access to college resources!

 

Even if vegans want to sweep cobalamin under the rug with an anecdotal broom, zinc is another deficiency that few vegetarians are not exempt from. And many zinc rich sources of food (soy, grains) that vegans consume also contain chelating phytates, which bind to zinc ions and reduce their bioavailability. Moreover, there is iron deficiency, and while plant sources do contain non-heme-iron, it is much less bioavailable than heme-iron. Various drinks such as teas and coffees contain tannins which specifically further reduce the bioavailability of non-heme-iron. Hallberg L., Rossander L. demonstrated this in a study, the abstract of which you can view (and hopefully download in full) here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6896705

 

Another interesting point is to ask why, in no previous period in history, has a population developed and thrived on a vegetarian diet? And why is it that the Inuit people can survive on a diet full of organ meats, without shortened lifespans? There are vegetarian populations in India, but they have just as short or shorter lifespans than many of their fellow countrymen in the same economic strata.

[Matthew Jefferys]

Vitamin K is difficult to get on a vegan diet. I won't say b12, because most vegans use the carbs and sugars from fruits for energy.

 

Cobalamin is actually used for energy metabolism, but the molecule itself contains no usable amount of energy when catabolised. Hence, even if a vegetarian develops cobalamin deficiency, all the carbohydrates in the world won't improve their energy levels. Many vegans claim to feel more mentally focused and physically energised. I also noticed this when I went vegetarian, but I noticed the same thing but amplified when I started fasting, so it could just be a byproduct of temporarily decreasing energy intake. Which might explain why fasting is a 'spiritual' experience is many religions. And why vegetarianism is defended like a religion 

[Matthew Jefferys]

For a moment, I'll get back to the original question in the thread; Just because someone seems to function okay on a limited diet doesn't mean they are. Many deficiencies are asymptomatic unless severe and only create health issues years down the road. I'd suggest you make sure she is taking some form of multivitamin, and try growing your own food. This might not only encourage her to explore other food options (as she will have to water and care for the plants in part), but the nutrient value of those foods will be different to those found in the grocery store. Many fruits and vegetables are weeks old by the time they reach the table. Many vital nutrients denature and decompose during this time period. Riboflavin (B2) decomposes under ultraviolet and fluorescent light. Hence all the plant foods sitting under the harsh, supermarket light will likely contain low levels of riboflavin. Not to mention the sunlight they're exposed to during cleaning and sometimes transport. A combination of commercial foods and homegrown varieties will not only increase her nutrient intake, but alternating raw and cooked foods also affects the nutrient balance of foods. Overall, if she seems to be managing, it can't be too serious. I'd make sure to keep an eye on her health and still encourage her to eat a wider variety of foods. Otherwise, if you put the above considerations into motion, she should be fine 

 

EDIT: I see she is taking a multivitamin! That's good, but just remember that it's no substitute for food (less bioavailability in supplements and all that)

Edited October 31, 2015 by Mercurial Flow

[Andrew Long]

some years ago i spent an entire year without changing my routine. the only thing I changed was my diet.  4 months eating nothing but 1-3kg of vegetables a day a piece of fruit occassionally and 3xred meat 3x white meat and 3x seafood a week (the 3x is meals).  4 months going vegetarian where i swapped the meat for dairy products and eggs (man the cheese was delicious). 4 months vegan where i swapped the dairy and eggs for grainsand legums/nuts etc (didnt have soy because i dont like it). 

my training stayed exactly the same the whole year even the time of day and amount of time spent training.  sleep stayed roughly the same the whole year.  stress didnt change for me.  ( i was studying a lot and had moved to a new town where I had one friend i lived with which is why this was so easy to keep the schedule).

the best i ever felt was during the first 4 months of eating the vege and meat not by a little bit by by a substantial amount.  did pretty well on the vegan diet as well but didnt have as much energy and my skin started drying out as well which was odd.

the difference between vego and vegan wasnt huge but my body felt  considerably better on the first one.  in saying all this i felt better on all 3 options than i did before when my vegetable content wasnt great and i ate out more.