The Glute Ham Raise vs The Deadlift

[Biren Patel]

This is not some poop-throwing which exercise is better question.

The value of GHR training has been well documented on this forum. However, I am hoping that someone will be able to expound upon this exercise in more detail. Particuarly, how does it hold up against the deadlift? Does the deadlift (or any of its variations) present any benefits over the GHR?

GHR is great for the glutes, hamstrings, and calves...but with correct PPT I have yet to feel it in my lower back. I wonder why Coach Sommer's original GHR article from years back mentions it as a great lower back exercise? Does the deadlift posess an edge in this regard with its more focus on the back musculature?

I have felt deadlift in my glutes, and the entire length of the spinal column, but never not once in the hamstrings and calves.

 

Do you think a combination of these two exercises would deliver great results in overall posterior chain development? Or is one not quite so necessary as the other? After all, 3x bw deadlifts are a dime a dozen, but I have only seen a mere handful of true full range no assisstance with correct pelvic postion GHR's, always performed by men with exceptional posterior leg development. But I think my question is more about the lower back training here.

Maybe an aside, and perhaps better question here is...clearly, GHR does not seem enough for the lower back. Where is all the exceptional lower back training for gymnastics coming from?

[Douglas Wadle]

Personally, I do them both.  I lift heavy deadlift once a week and do GHR once a week.  Benefits to deadlift that are not found in the GHR are: more back involvement, upper and lower, grip strength (big one), and pretty much whole body exercise.  Downsides, it can fatigue you for your other GST elements later in the week, it is not as good at targeting the hamstrings, and doesn't have nearly the eccentric load on the hamstrings as the GHR or the NLC, thus probably does not protect the hamstrings from injury to the same degree.  I feel they are equivalent on the glutes.  

[Ronnicky Roy]

I think coach was referring to a full ghr, where you lay over the fulcrum, so your torso is pointing towards the floor and the legs straight back. Lifting out of that position without too much momentum is where the back involvement comes. As well as the static strength when maintaining that forms through the movement.

As for the deadlift, MT pretty much said it all. The grip strength and overall back development is what it offers over GHR. GHR is a posterior chain movement and strengthens the trunk, when using good form. Deadlifts strengthen the grip, trunj, including heavy lat development, and a lesser focus on glutes/hams. I've never seen someone feel it exclusively in the hamstrings unless they were very glute/ham dominant individuals or did straight leg deadlifts in an attempt to make it the focus.

[Biren Patel]

Thanks for the replies! How do you guys feel about the stiff leg deadlift as opposed to the normal deadlift? Besides the increased hamstring focus, I was interested in how the weight is usually forced to be lower in the sdl. It seemed safer for the lower back. To explain, sometimes it feels like the legs can power through the first portion of the deadlift using a weight that the back will not be able to handle in the second half of the lift. Seems like sdl would be a good option for limiting the barbell weight to something the lower back can take on. Do my thoughts makes sense?

Personally, I do them both.  I lift heavy deadlift once a week and do GHR once a week.  Benefits to deadlift that are not found in the GHR are: more back involvement, upper and lower, grip strength (big one), and pretty much whole body exercise.  Downsides, it can fatigue you for your other GST elements later in the week, it is not as good at targeting the hamstrings, and doesn't have nearly the eccentric load on the hamstrings as the GHR or the NLC, thus probably does not protect the hamstrings from injury to the same degree.  I feel they are equivalent on the glutes.  

if I infer correctly, you are saying greater eccentric load is a good thing? Why specifically is eccentric load important to increase?

[Ronnicky Roy]

It does, but with SLDL it's usually hamstring flexibility that is the limiting factor. Second limiting issue is balance. After you have those two down you'll very quickly stack weight in each hand on those. The biggest benefit they offer is a new pattern for your brain to learn, extra balance and even muscle development between legs. Raising weight on these really are not necessary. Just bodyweight offers good exercise once you zero in on the form. But there are better movements

[Jon Douglas]

if I infer correctly, you are saying greater eccentric load is a good thing? Why specifically is eccentric load important to increase?

 

This is generally regarded (eccentric natural leg curl) as a gold standard in hamstring (p)rehab. Plenty of literature about

[Jan Reipert]

straight leg deadlifts put much much higher shear forces on your spine/lower back than the regular back because the lever is mcuh longer. you cant say its safer because you can use less weight.

[Dylan Robertson]

When I was doing deadlifts (14, 130lbs) (Deadlift was 155 for 3 Sets, 8-12 reps) and I felt it in my Hamstrings the next day quite a lot. But I agree that a mix of both would be the most beneficial. That way you target your whole posterior chain, only thing I would add would be Barbelll Hip Thrusts for dedicated Glute Training.

[Biren Patel]

Thank you guys for the input. I'm going to insert the deadlift into my schedule, I think a couple of sets SSC before F4 FLS. I think 135 should be a good starting point, complemented with the NLC already in warm up.

(Can't seem to find the best answer feature...was it removed?)

[Blairbob]

I'd say do your DL work after your gymnastic work.