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Biosignature test


Mats Trane
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Daniel Burnham

Not done it but as I understand Jeff used to do them at seminars in Arizona. I believe razz was also biosignature certified as is Phillip Chubb.

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Hi Mats!

 

I am BioSignature Level 1 certified, and Philip Chubb is Level 2 I believe. Everyone will have their own individual experience I'm sure, but mine has been very positive. The certification itself was very educational in terms of nutrition, lifestyle, and of course supplements, and we learned how to take someone's body fat measurements using skin-fold calipers. The main drawback, from my point of view, is that good quality supplements can be expensive, and if you follow all the BioSignature protocols to a tee, then you will end up spending lots of money.

 

That said, without changing much in my training or diet, my body fat before BioSig was about 12%, and most recently after using a lot of their supplements it is closer to 8%. (That is also a testament to the efficacy of the GB Foundations program!)

 

Best,

Chris

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Hi Mats!

 

I am BioSignature Level 1 certified, and Philip Chubb is Level 2 I believe. Everyone will have their own individual experience I'm sure, but mine has been very positive. The certification itself was very educational in terms of nutrition, lifestyle, and of course supplements, and we learned how to take someone's body fat measurements using skin-fold calipers. The main drawback, from my point of view, is that good quality supplements can be expensive, and if you follow all the BioSignature protocols to a tee, then you will end up spending lots of money.

 

That said, without changing much in my training or diet, my body fat before BioSig was about 12%, and most recently after using a lot of their supplements it is closer to 8%. (That is also a testament to the efficacy of the GB Foundations program!)

 

Best,

Chris

Thanks for your input. I just found out the other day that our next door neighbors at work are certified Bio Signature. I train hard 5 times a week and I realy want to get the most out of my training and at my age (51) I don't want to "miss" anything. Anyway I booked a meeting with him on Monday so we'll see... I might waste some money but I'm willing to take that risk.

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Hi Mats,

 

It's definitely worth looking into in order to optimize your training, recovery, and overall health. I recommend gathering some data (blood tests, body fat percentage, strength levels, etc.) before trying just one or two of the BioSignature supplemental interventions. Then after 2-3 months, re-test your metrics to see if anything has changed. Keep us informed!

 

Best,

Chris

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Colin Macdonald

 

That said, without changing much in my training or diet, my body fat before BioSig was about 12%, and most recently after using a lot of their supplements it is closer to 8%.

 

 

Miracle weight loss programs with amazing transformations are kind of a dime a dozen. But this program claims to have found the holy grail of spot reducing fat, does it not?

 

(That is also a testament to the efficacy of the GB Foundations program!)

 

Did your drop in body fat coincide more or less with your Foundation training?

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Hi thecolin,

 

Absolutely understand the concerns you have; I have them regarding most supplements as well. Simply put, the Poliquin Group stuff seemed to work better than anything else I had tried, that's all. And they very clearly dispel any notion of body fat spot-reduction. Rather, by looking at various body fat sites on the body, you can get an idea of what kind of underlying hormonal issues you might be dealing with. For instance, greater adipose tissue around the midsection is correlated to higher cortisol, all other things being equal.

 

I have been training Foundation for about one year now, and the drop in body fat was measured from May to October of this year, so no, it did not directly coincide with my changing anything. I traveled over the summer, so if anything I trained less consistently during those months and ate worse quality food more often.

 

Edited: But by all means, please do not take any n=1 account you read online on a forum as a justification of an entire program's efficacy or validation. We all have to do our own individual research and decide what works best for us and those with whom we work.

 

Best,

Chris

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Very interesting read, thanks thecolin! Charles left the company about 8 months before I did my BioSig cert, and from what I gather, they changed the course material a bit since then. Luke Leaman and Larry Veteto taught my seminar, and they were very research-minded and no-bullshit.

 

It seems like it comes down to semantics, which is never a place to spend too much time debating. I wrote that it's not spot-reduction, it's hormonal re-balancing, whereas Charles wrote that it's spot-reduction because it's hormonal re-balancing. By all means try it yourself and see what kind of results you get!

 

Best,

Chris

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Colin Macdonald

We'll you're clearly a salesman for your product. ;)

 

I think regardless of the specifics, the claims are beyond the scope of current research. It skirts a line that sounds plausible because hormones are clearly a big part of weight management. But it then goes on to make specific claims that simply aren't supported. So while you can claim it works in your experience, it cannot be called research based in my understanding.

 

If the supplement market were better regulated, I might be inclined to try these kinds of programs. But as it stands, the benefits of supplements are researched and promoted by companies that want to sell them. I understand that people are desperate to look like magazine models. But like I said, these weight loss programs are everywhere. Amazing 'before and after' pictures and transformations are everywhere. While these transformations may be very real, the specifics of them are subject to human testimony, which is fundamentally subjective and unreliable.

 

I'm glad you've found something that works for you, good luck with it.

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If clipping some areas of fat could reliably create a hormone profile that could then be used with dietary supplements (cha-ching! $$$) to change a person's fat distribution meaningfully, it would be a revolutionary scientific marvel discussed and picked apart by medical students, researchers, and practitioners. But it isn't. Because such a thing is preposterous pseudo-science and laughable to any endocrinologist. Frankly the amount of Poliquin shilling on this forum is ridiculous. 

 

I think the thought process with these charlatans is something like this: Gee, working out, eating better, and losing weight makes people feel better and raises their testosterone levels and lowers stress/cortisol. But that doesn't sound very sexy, and we can't charge money for common training sense. Better make a process that seems scientific, call it something pseudo-scientific so it sounds legit to idiots, make supplements, seminars, certifications, coaches. Then market it to a completely unregulated industry full of people wanting desperately to look better and watch the $$$ roll in.

 

Hey guys, you're being had by the oldest and sleaziest snake-oil salesman trick in the book. Classic bait-and-switch that costs you thousands while delivering results you could have landed at with some internet research. Do you also believe the claims that the outside of the tub of any supplement powder says? Be more skeptical for christ's sake.

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Daniel Burnham

If clipping some areas of fat could reliably create a hormone profile that could then be used with dietary supplements (cha-ching! $$$) to change a person's fat distribution meaningfully, it would be a revolutionary scientific marvel discussed and picked apart by medical students, researchers, and practitioners. But it isn't. Because such a thing is preposterous pseudo-science and laughable to any endocrinologist. Frankly the amount of Poliquin shilling on this forum is ridiculous. 

 

I think the thought process with these charlatans is something like this: Gee, working out, eating better, and losing weight makes people feel better and raises their testosterone levels and lowers stress/cortisol. But that doesn't sound very sexy, and we can't charge money for common training sense. Better make a process that seems scientific, call it something pseudo-scientific so it sounds legit to idiots, make supplements, seminars, certifications, coaches. Then market it to a completely unregulated industry full of people wanting desperately to look better and watch the $$$ roll in.

 

Hey guys, you're being had by the oldest and sleaziest snake-oil salesman trick in the book. Classic bait-and-switch that costs you thousands while delivering results you could have landed at with some internet research. Do you also believe the claims that the outside of the tub of any supplement powder says? Be more skeptical for christ's sake.

There is a decent amount of medical evidence showing that hormones do cause fat to be stored in different areas. The most extreme example is the difference in fat storage between men and women.  This isn't the best example though because of how many differences there are between the sexes.  You will also find that in certain medical conditions fat storage tends to be altered. However there are usually multiple causes rather than something like "more chest fat equals estrogen so either take anti estrogen or eliminate your plastic forks!"  I am not signature certified but I understand the gist.

 

As for myself.  I follow basically the same fat storage pathways as most men.  Typically low belly fat and chest fat is the only fat I will carry which are generally the two hardest places for men to loose it.  I am floating around 9% right now.  Would be interesting to see what a biosig would make of me.  Most likely it would say that I have cortisol and estrogen issues considering the fat storage areas I just stated before which I don't buy.

 

My only real problem with biosig is that instead of taking a holistic approach to correcting supposed hormone issues, it suggest supplements which I consider a problem because poliquin institute makes a lot of money off of their very expensive "high quality supplements" (the quality concerns I wont get into).  Instead I would like to see a program which corrects these things purely off of lifestyle and diet changes.  Lets assume there is some perfect human condition of health,  I doubt God, Mother Nature, whoever would have made us evolve for this to include a steady diet of supplements.  

 

Long story short.  Most things can be corrected by diet and lifestyle.  Exercise and happy interactions with others lowers cortisol better than a bottle.  The same can be said about testosterone (fats, sleep, and sun) and elimination of estrogenics (which seem to be the greatest fear of poliquin these days).  We could also go one about the effects of good gut bacteria balance, cycadian rhythms, proper micro nutrition etc... for days. But yes I agree the bottle approach is easier.  In the end I approach diet like I approach everything else including exercise, which is long term hard work while making sure every base is covered.  So far I have been served well.

 

Also Chris, none of this was against you just an observation about the biosig process.  I would love to see more evidence that the caliper measurements actually indicate real world hormone imbalances and also see that integrated with the strategies listed above which do not have a large self interest of selling supplements.

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Marios Roussos

If clipping some areas of fat could reliably create a hormone profile that could then be used with dietary supplements (cha-ching! $$$) to change a person's fat distribution meaningfully, it would be a revolutionary scientific marvel discussed and picked apart by medical students, researchers, and practitioners. But it isn't. Because such a thing is preposterous pseudo-science and laughable to any endocrinologist. Frankly the amount of Poliquin shilling on this forum is ridiculous. 

 

I think the thought process with these charlatans is something like this: Gee, working out, eating better, and losing weight makes people feel better and raises their testosterone levels and lowers stress/cortisol. But that doesn't sound very sexy, and we can't charge money for common training sense. Better make a process that seems scientific, call it something pseudo-scientific so it sounds legit to idiots, make supplements, seminars, certifications, coaches. Then market it to a completely unregulated industry full of people wanting desperately to look better and watch the $$$ roll in.

 

Hey guys, you're being had by the oldest and sleaziest snake-oil salesman trick in the book. Classic bait-and-switch that costs you thousands while delivering results you could have landed at with some internet research. Do you also believe the claims that the outside of the tub of any supplement powder says? Be more skeptical for christ's sake.

I have to agree with everything that was said here. The supplement industry is a modern-day version of snake-oil salesmen. There is literally no evidence that any of these products work, and there is furthermore no regulation with respect to their production.

 

By plastering magazine adds with pictures of "natural" men who in reality owe their physique to steroids and human growth hormone, they fuel the body-image issues that keep men buying the newest fad supplements. 

 

I would beware of anyone peddling health advice who also sells supplements "on the side". They usually cherry pick research papers and grossly overstate the findings in order to dupe desperate men into spending money on their products. The problem is that human nature is such that by the time people realize that the supplement didn't work for them, rather than realizing the whole industry is a scam, they merely fall for the next "new" product that is being pushed  by paid bro-science bloggers.

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Colin Macdonald

 

My only real problem with biosig is that instead of taking a holistic approach to correcting supposed hormone issues

 

This is fundamentally my problem as well. 

 

A more holistic approach is definitely called for. I think it has been show pretty consistently that if you want to genuinely change yourself, broad strokes are required. Pills and powders are usually band-aids at best.

 

And while broad lifestyle changes can create all kinds of health benefits, it's quite difficult to isolate exactly where cause and effect is. It becomes sort of a 'chicken and the egg' type problem. Much like the debate in obesity, with some claiming obesity is caused by hormone imbalances, while others saying that obesity causes hormone imbalances.

 

I've helped my wife make some very positive changes in her lifestyle, and I'd guess that hormones are involved in the process in some way. But it involved sweeping modifications in daily habits, not fish oil and ginseng.

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Hey guys!

 

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I am glad everyone is making individual decisions regarding supplementation. Please continue to gather as much relevant information as possible in order to make better decisions as well. In that vein, here is a list of studies the Poliquin Group gives out to their BioSignature students. (I'm not sure if that link is public, so feel free to PM if it doesn't work for you.)

 

Lastly, it is simply mistaken to say that the Poliquin Group and the BioSignature method does not focus on nutrition and lifestyle interventions. Even a cursory glance through their website makes that extremely clear. That would be akin to saying that GymnasticBodies doesn't focus on mobility work, which we all know through experience is comically untrue.

 

Best,

Chris

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Colin Macdonald

Hey guys!

 

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I am glad everyone is making individual decisions regarding supplementation. Please continue to gather as much relevant information as possible in order to make better decisions as well. In that vein, here is a list of studies the Poliquin Group gives out to their BioSignature students. (I'm not sure if that link is public, so feel free to PM if it doesn't work for you.)

 

That's a very long list of references, but I'm not quite clear how it actually integrates into the BioSignature system. Nor can I find any articles that talk about manipulating hormones for a specific effect, just that hormones and body fat are associated.

 

Since I'm getting conflicting information, can you summarize exactly what the BioSignature system claims to do, the mechanisms it uses, and what part of the research you posted supports that system?

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I am a biosig lvl 1, and to be honest it claims to do both of the things mentioned here.

 

I look over the posts here at the poliquin basing and I take offence, then I look at what I think of it and sometimes I agree. I have a problem as suggested here with the 'alopathic approach' to healing. As a CHEK lvl 1 and HLC lvl 1 I have been taught to look at the big picture as often as I can.

 

That being said, biosig does look at food. Yes it peddles a lot of supplements, and yes it does get results, but not always,  I am a little bit of a testament to that. The problem I also see is that there is no standard in nutrition by any agency, government body or strength and conditioning coach that seems to fit everyone. This can be easily seen in the 'heart foundations - Saturarted fat is bad for you and will cause heart disease, and yet there is no proof, on the contrary saturated fat is not only good for you, but better for you than the proposed alternative vegetable oils or monosaturateds and trans fats they create. The community of holistic practitioners on the most part disagree with almost 90% of what the gov, the FDA and the doctors are telling their patients, so that is confusing :)

 

 

eg: biosig has a few main points that are expressed on every new client. 

 

1) take EFA's. You take 1 gram of EFA's per % of bodyweight you want to lose. So if you are 18% and you want to be 10%, you need to take 8 X the dose. Does that seem like a lot. Hell yeah it does. Whats the problem with that? Dr Ray Peate (sorry if I spelled that incorrectly) His reports strictly state that EFA's are NOT essential Fatty Acids, and the excess consumption of said FA's contribute to an increase in free floating fatty acids, which are easily stored as fat. He also states that 'you need to eat sugar' so much sugar in fact that you would think your heart is going to explode, ok not that much but quite a lot more than has been advised.

 

2) You have a protein goal, This goal is 2.3'ish gms of protein per lb of lean body mass ( which you obtain after your biosig results) and this is to assist in maintenence, This number may be off a little, as i don't have my manual with me, but there are 2 numbers, 1 for maintenence and one for weight loss. 

 

3) list of veggies that are 'free veggies', this is pretty self explanatory, you can eat as much as you like of them

 

4) a list of 'carb' veggies and fruits, when strategically eaten will replenish your glyocgen stores after a workout, allowing you to continue burning fat long into the night/afternoon.

 

Now if you follow the above, and take a few extra supps, then you may most likely have great success. But i know people who have done it on food. I have tried both and so far nothing has worked for me, although I did find out in the last year that I had heavy metal levels that were in excess which means I am not getting rid of them, and the great organic nutrients I feasted on daily, were probably not being used, as the heavy metals took up all the good receptors. 

 

anyway, I did Biosig because I thought it would help, I did it when charles was in OZ a few years ago, I was utterly dissapointed with the course, and how it was presented, but the information for the most part I found helpful if not another avenue to explore possible ways to cut.

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We'll you're clearly a salesman for your product. ;)

 

I think regardless of the specifics, the claims are beyond the scope of current research. It skirts a line that sounds plausible because hormones are clearly a big part of weight management. But it then goes on to make specific claims that simply aren't supported. So while you can claim it works in your experience, it cannot be called research based in my understanding.

 

If the supplement market were better regulated, I might be inclined to try these kinds of programs. But as it stands, the benefits of supplements are researched and promoted by companies that want to sell them. I understand that people are desperate to look like magazine models. But like I said, these weight loss programs are everywhere. Amazing 'before and after' pictures and transformations are everywhere. While these transformations may be very real, the specifics of them are subject to human testimony, which is fundamentally subjective and unreliable.

 

I'm glad you've found something that works for you, good luck with it.

This kind of attitude is often out of lack of understanding supplements. Rather than really research it, people find it easier to write it all off. It's the easier option. But there are plenty of studies and books you can educate yourself with. Try Atlas of Endocrinology.

 

 

If clipping some areas of fat could reliably create a hormone profile that could then be used with dietary supplements (cha-ching! $$$) to change a person's fat distribution meaningfully, it would be a revolutionary scientific marvel discussed and picked apart by medical students, researchers, and practitioners.

 

 

 

Anyone researching these things knows science is very slow to update. We may see it studied more later, but just because something hasn't been picked apart doesn't mean it doesn't work. We know gymnastics training creates very strong bodies yet it isn't picked apart. We still know though.

 

 

 

My only real problem with biosig is that instead of taking a holistic approach to correcting supposed hormone issues, it suggest supplements which I consider a problem because poliquin institute makes a lot of money off of their very expensive "high quality supplements" (the quality concerns I wont get into).  Instead I would like to see a program which corrects these things purely off of lifestyle and diet changes.  Lets assume there is some perfect human condition of health,  I doubt God, Mother Nature, whoever would have made us evolve for this to include a steady diet of supplements.  

 

Long story short.  Most things can be corrected by diet and lifestyle.  Exercise and happy interactions with others lowers cortisol better than a bottle.  The same can be said about testosterone (fats, sleep, and sun) and elimination of estrogenics (which seem to be the greatest fear of poliquin these days).  We could also go one about the effects of good gut bacteria balance, cycadian rhythms, proper micro nutrition etc... for days. But yes I agree the bottle approach is easier.  In the end I approach diet like I approach everything else including exercise, which is long term hard work while making sure every base is covered.  So far I have been served well.

 

I think you would like the course. It isn't all about supplementation like most people think. There is a lot on proper nutrition and understanding that you can't outsupplement a bad diet. However, there is also the understanding that food quality isn't what it once was. Get a blood test and check the references in Dr. James LaValle's book, "Your Blood Never Lies". It's very helpful.

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Daniel Burnham

Thanks for the informative reply Alex! I am interested in the program in the academic sense but have had the results I want without it. I am however eager to have my blood taken. Right now it's just a matter of finding the time. Once I finish grad school I should have more time to do these things.

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Marios Roussos

This kind of attitude is often out of lack of understanding supplements. Rather than really research it, people find it easier to write it all off. It's the easier option. But there are plenty of studies and books you can educate yourself with. Try Atlas of Endocrinology.

Alex, have you really researched the supplements recommended by BioSignature and found evidence for their stated effectiveness? If so, can you please give us some examples? I'd love to do my own research, but don't actually know what they recommend and for what conditions they recommend them.

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Colin Macdonald

This kind of attitude is often out of lack of understanding supplements. Rather than really research it, people find it easier to write it all off. It's the easier option. But there are plenty of studies and books you can educate yourself with. Try Atlas of Endocrinology.

 

So you advice is a to go get a $400 book?  :P

 

If you have some information to present, then please do so. But just dismissing other opinions as uneducated without actually responding to the substance of a statement is far too easy.

 

Can you provide some specific examples of how you manipulate hormones with readily available supplements?

 

 

eg: biosig has a few main points that are expressed on every new client. 

 

So basically, get more protein, eat lots of veggies and limit carbs to after workouts? That seems like pretty generic fat loss advice, wouldn't you say?

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While there are strong opinions on both sides of this discussion, please keep the passion at a level appropriate for these forums.

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Thanks for your opinions everone! I decided to do the test, I might waste some money but I´m willing to take the risk. My goal with this is to optimize my meals and to find out what foods my body reacts to in a negative way.

I´ll try to share my experinces in this thread.

I was there the a few days ago. Did the bloodtests and the guy measured me in 12 spots. I also took notes of what i was eating for 3 days. I will now meet him for consulting and new measurements 10 mondays ahead. Got the reults from the measurements back yesterday and they were as follows:

 

post-90-0-77456300-1415704195_thumb.jpg

 

 

He aslo went through my notes of the meals and the first thing he wanted me to try to change was my breakfast. Up till  know I´ve been eating Natural yoghurt with buckweat and a fresh fruit. He gave me a list of 10 different breakfasts. The biggest change was basically more protein. It will take another week to get the results of the blood tests as they send them off to Germany.

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Thanks for the informative reply Alex! I am interested in the program in the academic sense but have had the results I want without it. I am however eager to have my blood taken. Right now it's just a matter of finding the time. Once I finish grad school I should have more time to do these things.

Of course! I think food and lifestyle will do a lot for the body. I've also seen great results from the protocols that improve your ability to handle food ect. Biosignature has really moved toward blood testing as well and that book makes them easy too read as well as giving optimal ranges for some of the test that could use a little modification.

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