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Jason Stein

"Cindy," "Mary," "JT" Challenge?

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Blairbob

Jason, the one individual that comes to mind that has gotten strong since CF is probably Connor Martin since he probably has grown up with it. It's very true many CFers have backgrounds in WL, BB, or other sports.

CrossFitFootball and MaxEffortBlackBox are also designed pure strength and power.

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Jason Stein

Robert,

Some months back, Dutch Lowy wrote a bit on his blog comparing his experiences with MEBB and CFSB, which he preferred, and why.

I also thought that perhaps your athletes would thrive in a Fight Gone Bad-type workout, i.e. multi-round, competitive, timed, and reps counted by someone else, since rep-counting seems to be an issue.

I've also been checking out with interest OPT's workout blog; unlike Crossfit-style workouts, he doesn't post high volume stuff, but he does do some interesting things with eccentrics, breath-counting, and timed recovery, some of which would be interesting to apply to gymnastics-style workouts.

best,

jason

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Blairbob

Yeah, they would but one of me and 7 or 8 of them isn't gonna work rep counting. Not even if Itrust them and they write it down because they tend to forget what rep they are on.

Again, I don't know what the point of it would be to do. Occasional fun, maybe ok. As their programming, I still say no. I'm sure I would have deal with lots of CF'ers that would tell me they should be doing CF/CFK instead of what we do. There are specific things they need to get good at like L/V-sit/hang for kips and their routines besides HS, press HS. Yes, that means they are not as proficient at them as I would like or they are weaker than they should be.

It might be interesting one day to experiment with but my focus right now is preparing them because we compete in 6 months and they aren't where I want them to be so I can't waste any time. It will be up 2 fast and there will be hell to pay if I don't have them kipping to support on HB or with decent enough HS to pirouette or swinging big enough on HB and SR for their routines.

Metcon for gymnasts? Their routines are about 30-45s long. I don't care about building athletes that will go into other sports and dominate, I care about creating awesome gymnasts. If I was doing CFK, then I would care about that but we aren't doing MA or MMA or preparing them to do another ball sport ( which is a whole nother ball game ).

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Jason Stein

Robert,

The Crossfit people have contributed some interesting elements to GPP training, chief among them fun and competition. It's been interesting to me to see where there's crossover between the training offered on this board and with Crossfit, as well as other systems.

My friend and I are putting together a multi-round timed workout (1-minute rounds) that features rotations between complementary gymnastics-based exercises. Basically a GB Fight Gone Bad or a less lengthy podkatchka. I'll let you know how it works out, as it might be a way to offer another potent and fun variation on general conditioning.

I've observed training sessions at Omega Gymnastics out in Beaverton; apparently they have some athletes selected for Future Gymnast Stars or something, these young kids who seemed phenomenally talented. Watching their coach attempt to coax, bully and brow-beat them through their conditioning program was very eye-opening.

I didn't quite get that you were in fact preparing boys for competitive gymnastics. It had sounded to me more like a recreational program. Best of luck; sounds like you've got your hands full.

jason

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Blairbob

I run the boy's rec program such as it is and the burgeoning team program.

For general conditioning, I typically use some of the DrillsandSkills WOD's. These can be 6 or 8 minutes for rounds or 3 rounds or modified tabata 20-10 circuits ( I don't find 45-15 works as well ).

It gets quite old to have to brow beat kids through conditioning when I have to brow beat through events such as it is so they aren't goofing off or talking about what cars they saw today.

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Coach Sommer

Circuit training, as traditionally performed, for most young gymnasts is inefficient, counter-productive and produces only marginal to mediocre results.

The athletes rarely perform optimally regardless of the amount of "cajoling" by the instructor; they fail to perform the appropriate reps, they do not learn to push through discomfort and they usually use poor form and technique on their exercises - all of which also contributes to the athlete failing to develop perseverance as they never learn how to intensely focus on the task at hand.

At this stage in their development, young gymnasts should be focusing on getting very strong, very flexible and developing a solid work ethic. This is simply not possible when the athletes are left to their own to decide how hard to work or what constitutes acceptable technique. For optimum results, a coach needs to directly oversee, and handspot if necessary, every single rep of every single exercise.

The reason many coaches choose to focus on circuit training is convenience; a large group of athletes can be run through at once and it requires much less effort on the part of the coach. However in the long run, the coach simply reaps what they have sown - there is no substitute for hard work; on either the part of the athlete or the coach.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Blairbob

That is exactly what I have found in methods I have used before GB, Coach Sommer, when I look back. I still think quite a few of my athletes were nutritionally dialed in but my latest methods based on GB are working far better.

Not having to brow beat them is nice as my stress levels don't have to skyrocket through the roof. I simply must yell at them when they choose to take their rest periods in the pit.

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Cnye94

Blair, when I was younger our hockey coaches would just yell at us if we lost focus. I once had a superb coach who had to be a little crazy sometimes. We tied a team we shouldn't have, then next practice we all skated no pucks for us. I guess you as a coach need to find the line between being friendly and Scary. Oh yeah I played with him for 2 years at the top level of my age group and we lost 4 games.... was awesome.

Another Good thing to have is record boards in your gym. you could have a board with the columns by age, the rows with the feat.

Like So http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... LrxxczUg2Q to help keep it competitive and fun.

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Jason Stein

Friends,

At the session I observed out at Omega, the coach was hand-spotting almost all of the training, and then when it was over, it was time for conditioning. These were boys, maybe 7-9 years old, and they had to do rope climbs.

One kid climbed 15 feet up the rope, just out of reach of the coach, looked down and announced he didn't feel like doing any more rope climbing. So he just hung there on the rope. His coach and eventually the two other boys gathered at the bottom of the rope to er, strongly urge him to finish his climb.

Watching the session also drove home how much physical work the coaches put in. Lifting, spotting, holding, lowering. It looked exhausting.

best,

jason

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Blairbob

I try to handspot a bit, but I like setting up lots of drills that are self spotted because it allows me to spot other things. In fact, it's probably why I can keep up some modicum of staying in shape even if I were to not workout because of having to move mats, pick up kids ( throw kids at times into the pit ), and spot. However, spotting a lot does take its wear and tear on my joints and back, especially sometimes my shoulders if they are trashed.

I will admit to using circuit training with rec classes or sometimes the adult classes. Sometimes we do strength focus and then a circuit. Limited time and ease of methods. Also it keeps them on task vs letting them slack. Honestly in 1-3 hours a week, results aren't gonna be great especially because of how little time is available to condition after warmup, basics, skill work and their energy levels. Adults seem to like the short metcons from DrillsandSkills or tabata or tabata circuits.

Tonight I tested a sprint Mary.

I got 3 rounds+ the 5HeSPU and 10SLS. Only 3 of the pullups which I used a butterfly kipping pullup ( which aggravated my prior chest injury ). I think I should have done an arch to hollow kip or strict as it also trashed my grip and forearms ( though I havent practiced kipping PU really at all in the last 4 months ). HeSPU were back against wall, head forward of hands. Weren't too hard either and I'm sure if I did them Crosstastically they would have been easier.

I figure a sprint Mary that is strict is mostly strength based. To note I can do 25SLS at least but these SLS kinda aggravated my left ankle because of the floor vs doing them on a beam.

Gonna try a 5 or 10m Cindy 2nite for metcon because I just wasn't feeling up for Filthy50 today and maybe tomorrow. I couldn't see doing the sprint cindy or mary for metrics if I did filthy50 the day before.

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