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New Coach Sommer Interview - July 1, 2014

Started by mcneuen, July 1, 2014 · 34 Replies · 2,267 Views

Keegan

Wow! I've been an avid athlete, have a degree in Exercise Science, am a trainer and athletic coach for a living, and am around world class athletes on a semi regular basis, and still my mind is totally blown every time I listen to Coach Sommer talk about training!

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us Coach.

Mark Collins

I really liked the emphasis on waiting for the connective tissue to adapt. I am like most and want to progress in a hurry. This talk has changed my focus on when to progress and I need to wait another cycle or two and progress when my connective tissue is ready. Training is so much better this way.

Damon Amato

On the podcast, coach mentioned an athlete that was deadlifting at 135lb for a long time, and when they begged him to increase load, he did to 185lb and it was easy.  Coach, what other related training did this athlete do?  Can you expand on their regimen?  

StrongZombie
Damon Amato said:

On the podcast, coach mentioned an athlete that was deadlifting at 135lb for a long time, and when they begged him to increase load, he did to 185lb and it was easy.  Coach, what other related training did this athlete do?  Can you expand on their regimen?  

Pavel spoke of similar routines. He called it the 45 day routine or something like that. 1-4 exercises, done daily for 2 sets of 5. Same load the whole time. By week 6 it should be very 'easy'.

 

^op

Anyway, great info Coach! Thanks!

Jon Douglas
Damon Amato said:

On the podcast, coach mentioned an athlete that was deadlifting at 135lb for a long time, and when they begged him to increase load, he did to 185lb and it was easy. Coach, what other related training did this athlete do? Can you expand on their regimen?

There is a thread about this in F3 forum. I'll link you when I get home if no one beats me to it :)

tom040287
Damon Amato said:

On the podcast, coach mentioned an athlete that was deadlifting at 135lb for a long time, and when they begged him to increase load, he did to 185lb and it was easy.  Coach, what other related training did this athlete do?  Can you expand on their regimen?  

So is this something we should consider before we claim mastery and move to the next progression(finding mastery volume easy), the long time it takes to rebuild connective tissues that was dicussed in the interview seems to support this and my thought's that the first few PE's especially are reteaching movement patterns would seem that it'd make sense. 

meras
tom040287 said:

So is this something we should consider before we claim mastery and move to the next progression(finding mastery volume easy), the long time it takes to rebuild connective tissues that was dicussed in the interview seems to support this and my thought's that the first few PE's especially are reteaching movement patterns would seem that it'd make sense. 

Would really like someone answer this. I've been wondering the same thing and I have conflicting opinions. On one hand, Coach has mentioned that our minds give up first and that we should go on as long as form is maintained. On the other, there's the begging for a load increase which implies a certain level of comfort should be achieved before moving on. For instance, this week I tested out for negative dip mastery (hbp pe5), and while I kept my tempo/form, my arms were burning ant my mind screaming on the last set. Now I wonder if I should stay on the last micro cycle, or move on to the next progression. Or does getting comfortable apply to more advanced elements?

Keegan
Jon Douglas said:

There is a thread about this in F3 forum. I'll link you when I get home if no one beats me to it :)

Could you please post a link? I've looked on the F3 forum and can't find any thread title that resembles this topic.

k123
meras said:

Would really like someone answer this. I've been wondering the same thing and I have conflicting opinions. On one hand, Coach has mentioned that our minds give up first and that we should go on as long as form is maintained. On the other, there's the begging for a load increase which implies a certain level of comfort should be achieved before moving on. For instance, this week I tested out for negative dip mastery (hbp pe5), and while I kept my tempo/form, my arms were burning ant my mind screaming on the last set. Now I wonder if I should stay on the last micro cycle, or move on to the next progression. Or does getting comfortable apply to more advanced elements?

I've had the same thoughts, but I can offer my own opinion on the matter (I'll go off on a slight tangent, but hopefully it helps you and others).

When Coach really emphasized "working hard", I was under the impression this was in reference to gymnastic noobs (especially adults) that weren't used to putting forth a strong effort in workouts (I believe I heard this in one of the podcasts or in the forums, but I don't remember exactly where, and that could be incorrect/inaccurate). That being said, after reading the posts about working harder and doing so in my workouts, I mentally burned out pretty quickly, and it discouraged me from exercising after doing it for a few workouts (this happened a few times, almost creating a negative association with exercise). Now, maybe I'm just mentally weak, but for me, I feel consistency in exercising is generally more important than busting my balls to squeeze in a few more reps in a couple of workouts and then being too burnt out to work out for the next week or two. This is why I liked ssc as was previously advocated (ssc more or less what Coach was talking about in the podcast with Heath and deadlifts). A couple of years back, before foundation, I built my gb workout focusing on the basic prerequisites in the prerequisites thread (hollow, arch, support hold, plank, rev plank, chinup hang), and then push/pulls in the various planes as outlined in btgb and the killroy template. As was advised at the time, most of this was done ssc-style, and it was probably the best training period I had. Ssc was nice because it encouraged consistency (the most consistent and structured period of working out that I had), and I felt that I became stronger without constantly draining myself. But yes, this is contradictory to what seems to be advised now, especially concerning foundation (work as hard as you can). I previously created a thread asking about ssc versus the foundation programming, and it was answered that ssc is reserved for more advanced training.

So, until there is an "official" answer, if there is any, it might help to play around with the perceived intensity and see what works best for you. Perhaps, in order to progress, there are some people that need to feel as if they are working super hard each workout, while others don't need that same feeling in order to progress. However, I think we can all agree that some consistency is extremely important in order to progress. In your case, if your testing of a foundation element was difficult, but you did in fact complete proper mastery and it doesn't interfere with consistency, maybe you're ok to progress to the next element. However in my case, if completing that mastery would have burnt me out for 2 weeks (plus time to build back up to where I was) and broken the consistency, maybe it's more beneficial to maintain that level of intensity until it feels easy.

This is all just my rationalization of the differing advice on perceived training intensity, but as I'm very inexperienced compared to others on the forum and Coach, I would also be interested in hearing their thoughts on this.

Jon Douglas

What seems to be causing difficulty is the concept of 'comfortable.'

Working hard, and being used to working hard, will redefine your benchmark for easy vs hard sets. Having to push, but not having any trouble bringing your set to a finish indicates comfort.

To use myself for an example, hs wall runs. Ten minutes upside down is never going to feel like a nap, exactly. But once you are used to it, its reasonably comfortable. You just decide to take it easy and come down, or stay up longer.

What I'm trying to say is that comfortable does not necessarily mean easy. I can perform 10 PPP+ comfortably, not easily. I can sprint 100m comfortably, not easily. I have to work for these things, but I have no doubt in doing them that I will complete the set without really struggling (shaking, gasping, failing). While some time in an under-load intensity is necessary, regularly performing workouts that are simply too easy for you and aren't progressing with time is not going to improve you.

That's my take :)

Edit;

Obviously performing workouts that are too difficult are also going to be unproductive. But unless you are pushing yourself, how will you know if you are truly hitting the sweet spot between them or you are just cruising? We are basing our training on science and objectivity, not gut feelings and guesswork. Thats why the programming comes from someone with the objectivity and experience to predict and schedule progression, and that's why it works :)

Mark Collins

I now ask myself the question "will I benefit from another mini cycle?" I am finding the intensity starts high with a new exercise or mini cycle and as I do more cycles I feel the exercise become easier. At this point I feel like my connective tissue is adapting to the new load so I will be ready for the next stimulus. This has happened with SLS/Se4. The other day I did 4x5 and I have had soreness for two days. I know next week I could push and do 5x5 and move on. It would be pushing to near failure and I would be sore for days and possibly flare up my patella tendinopathy. Instead I will repeat another one to two 4 week cycles so I can do 5x5 with no soreness the next day. This will make the next exercise easier and I will not be pushing my connective tissue to the limit and risk injury.

This will be an individual process to work out. I am 39 so I will be more cautious than if I was in my 20s.

wheezer
k123 said:

So, until there is an "official" answer, if there is any, it might help to play around with the perceived intensity and see what works best for you.

 

I think trying all the options and seeing what works best is the "official" answer. Coach said it himself on the podcast: it's not about spending tons of energy putting together the best program for everyone, it's about testing how your body responds to any given training approach. It's an individual thing.

 

I guess in your case, the question is: do you give max effort and take even longer breaks (to avoid burnout), or do you scale back intensity for the sake of doing more regular work? Due to the fact that we are left to decide how many days/week to do F1, I would take all the rest you need to give max effort and still be fully recovered for the next session. Whether you need to train up to more work capacity, or this is just how your body is - I don't know. But at least you are being totally honest about how you respond to training, and I think that's the most important thing.

 

I could listen to Coach all day. Love hearing about how the courses fit into the bigger picture.

rumchap

I may be misremembering, but I seem to remember SSC being referred as a more advanced training technique. Coach may have gone with the increasing reps and mastery tempate in part because it is easier to grasp and more standard across conditioning programmes and much more likely to be adhered to by people not being directly overseen.

 

I guess that if SSC was being applied, the 'mastery' times would be lower but they would feel easy when it is time to move on, and possibly have longer cycles. With the Foundation etc. mastery templates, the aim is for the mastery aim to be challenging but manageable.

tom040287

Agree with the points made above that progress, or the best way to it, is subjective to the individual. like jon said comfortable is an individual thing, my take on it would be as his, a workout isn't easy but you know you can complete it and recover for the next workout. And I suppose if you keep the earlier PE's as warm up your still reinforcing your gains and improving yourself

Riku Calderón

My training did really start only after the coaches post about working hard. I have to kick my own ass every time i train to get results. And i was thinking that im just not genetically gifted. I was not doing the best that i can. As simple as that.

JN12

I think for this "working hard" you also need to distinguish between muscles and connective tissue. If your muscles are burning but you can keep form and tempo push for it. But if you feel it in your joints back down immediately.

 

For example this week I did my second week of RC/PE6. I started at the second block because I could handle it but after the last workout I felt it in my right elbow a bit. It was gone the next day but this is still a sign that even though I could handle the time my connective tissue is not ready for it and that I need to take this one a bit slower.

Jon Douglas
Damon Amato said:

for those of us not at F3 yet and can't access that thread clifff notes?

Istrongly suggest a minimum of f2 mobility/str in the legs before bothering to spend your energy on adding weights. Thats the first priority and is really not a prohibitive standard. Since its Coachs programming, if he wants it open to people from day one its up to him to make it public or not :)

Rob Rowland

20 minutes?!  He says Foundation workouts generally take around 20 minutes...

 

I must be doing something wrong.   :(

 

Coach, have you noticed, in all your years, that there are individuals who respond better or see more efficient progress if allowed more rest between sets? 

kingzlo
Rob Rowland said:

20 minutes?!  He says Foundation workouts generally take around 20 minutes...

 

I must be doing something wrong.   :(

 

Coach, have you noticed, in all your years, that there are individuals who response better or see more efficient progress if allowed more rest between sets? 

Hey Rob, have you ever worked out from other training video(s)?  How I see it, in comparison, is that in the beginning you will not catch up to the person your watching on the screen, especially in good form.  In GB workouts, you may be able to catch up with a few workout, yet others may be extremely difficult; depending on your strength, mobility, etc.  I say this base on my experience with this and past workout routines I've worked with.

 

I initially came back to this forum talk because it just dawned on me, after listening to the podcast on Saturday, how it will take some time to catch up to these beasts in here, but in due time with this training.  20 minutes may just be the mark after a few weeks in (i'm remembering 8 weeks of training (blurryRecall)).  Got to get another listen in and take notes.  But for now, I'm not counting time, more on concentration of proper form and how my body is feeling (joints, muscles).

 

Overall, I'm feeling it.  Literally.   

 

FRIDAY's routine Upper Body Foundation1(F4)

- FL/PE2        Week 6 (getting brutal towards the ending sets)

- SPL/PE6     Week 6 (decided to go through through 18 sec count.  I notice the feeling in the mobility, how my legs are fully activated strangely)

- HBP/PE2    Week 9 (fell back on that, supposed to be Week10.  Still going through week 9's numbers issue.  I'm able to go up to 12 reps in the beginning, but set after set fatigue comes into play after 6-9 reps, so I pause for a breath or 2, and grind the remainders and pause again for maybe last rep or 2)

- RC/PE1      Week 9 (same as HBP/PE2)

***  Note: I don't feel any issue in my joint muscles during the push/pull struggle i'm going through.  But I know I have to go back to Block 3(weeks9-12) after this cycle is over with after week 12)

 

 

TODAY  is Lower Body Foundation1(F3)

- MN/PE1     Week 10 (abs more defined and waistline is reduced from all those core routines.  CRAZY)

- SL/PE2      Week 2 (Had to fall back from Block2, it was brutal)

- SLS/PE1    Week 6 (Seems like I'm still going too hard to get up, but I wind up getting up (although sometimes I may fall.  (form video coming soon)

++++++++++++++++++

Handstands1

- all WRS (back to back from WP-HS and back for 4 sets)

(On the "Long Hollow" level of wrist work)

- WP/PE2      Week 6 (getting used to my weight leaned in on this one)

- FK/PE2       Week 10

- WR/PE2     Week 10

- FTP/PE2     Week 10

- HS/PE2      Week 5 (although I would put in more sets in, due to falling off after a few sec loss of balance)

 

 

After writing all of this I was going to work out.  But my core is getting hungry, time to eat.  So for today's split routine...  about 2 hours from now, unless something else comes up in life.  Then it would have to be at the end of the day, kind of usual.

 

Stay strong everyone.

Cory Fair
Rob Rowland said:

20 minutes?!  He says Foundation workouts generally take around 20 minutes...

 

I must be doing something wrong.   :(

 

Coach, have you noticed, in all your years, that there are individuals who response better or see more efficient progress if allowed more rest between sets? 

 

Overall, students tend to dawdle during a workout more than they realize. The 20 minutes isn't an absolute but if you've setup properly beforehand, know what you're doing and work hard without making that 30 second rest a 3 minute one it'll be a relatively brief affair.

 

Learn to enjoy the challenge of not wasting time in your workouts. Once you get the swing of it, there's a great adrenaline rush in attempting to nail everything perfectly while still racing the clock. :)

 

The courses are also meant to be studied and not approached as "figure it out as you go" during each workout. The amount of effort put into using the materials directly relates to your progress through the program. 

Mark Collins

I can get f7 done in an hour. Looks like I need to move a bit quicker. Will help with the conditioning as well.