sPL journey in Foundation 1 going wrong?

Hey,
So I believe I may have been doing this whole exercise wrong. Or at least something has probably gone wrong along the line. I have reached sPL/pe6 and HBP/pe5. When I did sPL/pe5 and HBP/pe3 I believe I had it going good. But in HBP I seem to advance pretty quickly but in sPL I now seem to be regressing (in contrast to progressing). More and more I have started to feel the load of the lean in the "shoulders, biceps bracchi, and the forearm/finger tendons", and losing the feeling in the scapula/shoulder blades. At the moment I can not find the proper feeling at all unless I have my knees on the ground and lean very very slightly forward and deliberately and slowly searching for the scapular muscles. What I have noticed recently is that it seems as though protraction and depression is not enough. I can protract and depress but without shoulders rotating forward I get absolutely nothing from the upper back but instead only as mentioned above: shoulders, biceps brachi, forearm...

So now I have mixed feeling. Although it is sad to have to start over it is a joy to have learned alot along the way. What I am interested in is whether anybody has experienced the same thing? If I have understood this exercise properly then I wish that this information about rotation also was available and not just protraction and depression.

Got a video for us?

I try to get all the cues in place before I start the lean.

I'm on the same elements as you and progress has been a lot slower than the previous ones. Progress is still progress though.

Hi Nino,

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by "shoulders rotating forward". Do you mean from the point of view of someone standing in the anatomical position, the shoulders move forward in relation to the body (I understand this as scapular protraction); or do you mean from the point of view of someone in a planche lean, the shoulders move forward in relation to the body (I understand this as scapular elevation); or something else? With the hands stationary, the only other movement in the shoulders I can think of is external rotation, ie right arm rotates clockwise and left arm anti-clockwise. A video or picture might help.

Murray Truelove said:

Got a video for us?

I try to get all the cues in place before I start the lean.

I'm on the same elements as you and progress has been a lot slower than the previous ones. Progress is still progress though.

I have actually posted videos in an other thread recently. Those videos are taken short before I started considering starting sPL all over. I have done only PE5 since the videos. Here is the thread:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/16405-splpe5-pe6-comparisonform-check/

KibboKift said:

Hi Nino,

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by "shoulders rotating forward". Do you mean from the point of view of someone standing in the anatomical position, the shoulders move forward in relation to the body (I understand this as scapular protraction); or do you mean from the point of view of someone in a planche lean, the shoulders move forward in relation to the body (I understand this as scapular elevation); or something else? With the hands stationary, the only other movement in the shoulders I can think of is external rotation, ie right arm rotates clockwise and left arm anti-clockwise. A video or picture might help.

I find it very hard to describe exactly what I mean. I tried videoing when experimenting with the movements but I dont seem to understand it. But, I saw that I can still move the shoulders around, forward or backward even if the scapula are fixed (or am I totally spaced out on this one??). And also I got a comment once about not rounding the upper back in the proper place (not enough high up the back). So what I am trying now, is exactly:

• Placing the hand so that the fingers can not assist in the lean (at max the thumb can help).

• Humerus rotating outward so that the armpit faces forward and maybe even outward. (Deactivating biceps bracchi.)

• Pressing the scapula forward

• Pressing the shoulders as far forward as possible, and then also pressing them toward each other (in over the chest).

• Rounding the upper back

• Facing downward toward the stomach to further round the upper back

• Contracting abs with PPT and pressing chest downward towards the hips. And pressing the lower back backward as in Mn/pe4 or FL/pe1.

• Feet and knees touching, extending the legs strongly as in i.e. sPL/pe6>iM. (Staight and together.)

Well.. as you can see I find this exercise really really complex and I am probably waay over thinking it but I am forced to "over(-)think" it since the results are not equal from day to day. The slightest conscious or not conscious modification in the form changes everything and even if sometime I am not aware of what is happening I sure can feel something being different. Here are pictures from just now:

From the picture you posted (I'll check out your other thread later) it looks like you're rounding your middle back too much. Squeeze the glutes and protract and depress as much as you can, this should achieve the necessary body line.

You're looking strong though so don't lose hope.

Have you seen this thread of Adriano's?

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/11309-another-nemesis-planche-leans-form-check/

You can see that he begins with quite a lot of rounding in the middle back, which reduces over time as his form improves. There are also some good comments from Coach and Zach. Look at Adriano's form later on, and Allen in the course video, and you'll see there's very little rounding at all.

So I would suggest that some of the cues you are using may be counter-productive. From the lower back downwards everything looks good, but I can't see that looking downwards and actively trying to round your back is going to be of much help. So I'll tell you what worked for me:

- Make sure your protraction is strong by really milking the earlier PE's, particularly PE1. Stretching the traps can also help if you are tight in this area

- With full - or close to full protraction - locked in, focus on depression. By this I mean pulling your shoulders down towards your waist. When I do this I feel the lats activate, the serratus anterior working harder and the whole of my upper back feels solid. Try this standing first, until you can feel the correct activation, before moving onto a plank position.

- Practice your plank next to a mirror aiming for the same form as a planche lean, but minus the lean. If you don't have a picture in your head of what this should look like then print one out and adjust yourself accordingly. I found that depressing the scapula resulted in less rounding of the middle back and then I was able to make some further adjustments in my core to reduce the rounding further.

- Finally add some lean, but not so much that you lose form.

That's just my experience, so please take with a pinch of salt. The general advice when you are struggling to demonstrate correct form is to post form checks of earlier PE's to help isolate the problem.

Lastly, I can't find the post, but pretty sure Coach has advised hands forwards or sideways, not backwards, as we're only at the early stages of elbow conditioning.

Activating the serratus anterior is what finally made me 'get' protraction needed for sPL. With hands by your sides, imagine squeezing your sides, like if you held a newspaper under your armpit. Then spread your shoulder blades or try to touch the shoulder together in front, whatever cue works best for you. Do this in front of a mirror so you can see when you get the right position. You should feel a burn around the ribs at your sides. 

Once you find the correct position, you might need to do it on an incline first, depends on how strong your serratus is.

Ouch, I  just pulled my left Serratus Anterior doing that! Thanks for the tip - I'm hoping it will help the bent arm straddle hold (sPL SE1 iM).

KibboKift said:

 

Thank you for the energy you put in on your reply!

Like the others replied after you, I believe the key for my original question lies in being conscious about activating serratus anterior. Before, protract and depress just hasn't been enough. May sound wrong but if I depress stronger than I protract then the shoulder also moves down and back to the original body line. But somehow the serratus anterior locks the shoulder in it's maxed out 'protracted AND (equally) deppressed' position. The differens is huge since before it was only the shoulders working, but with this the effort transfers to the upper back. Which is much more comfortable to handle.

I have seen Adriano's thread that you spoke about but did not find answers to this specifically. Although I will look into straightening that middle back. Some I believe have said it will fix itself on the journey. May be, but at the moment I can not really tell the difference between middle or upper back from the feelings of the positions. To me the pictures that I posted is what I though has been "upper back".

LateStarter@46 said:

Ouch, I  just pulled my left Serratus Anterior doing that! Thanks for the tip - I'm hoping it will help the bent arm straddle hold (sPL SE1 iM).

I don't understand what you mean by "pulled" your serratus anterior. You mean you injured yourself?

Nino Begovic said:

I don't understand what you mean by "pulled" your serratus anterior. You mean you injured yourself?

Yes, I strained it while trying out the activation technique a little too powerfully :-(

Strained muscle = pulled muscle

LateStarter@46 said:

Yes, I strained it while trying out the activation technique a little too powerfully :-(

Strained muscle = pulled muscle

I hope it isn't too bad. You probably already activate the serratus enough; this que was this helpful to me because I have trouble correctly activating.

LateStarter@46 said:

Yes, I strained it while trying out the activation technique a little too powerfully :-(

Strained muscle = pulled muscle

Interesting, this is probably the only muscle in the body that I have never har injured. I'm secretly curious how it feels.

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I took some videos from todays sPL work and it finally felt right. Pretty solid, and no painface. I tried lowering the middle back as well. Turned out pretty good in my opinion. I don't think I will rush the lean from here but let it increase by itself before claiming mastery. Any thoughts to share?

Thanks!

Murray Truelove said:

 

KibboKift said:

 

Duff said:

 

LateStarter@46 said:

 

Sorry had to bump so thread doesn't die just yet.

Looks much better!

It's hard to tell how much you're protracting with your shirt on, but bodyline looks good.

I prefer the second picture.