Some FBE's questions

Hi,

I had a few questions on FBE's:

1- How much should you rest between sets?

2- Is it better to do straight sets, or to "pair" a push with a pull?

The book seems to suggest doing supersets, but I don't think they would work for me right now. I feel i would get tired too quickly or get pre-fatigued.

For example, would this be ok:

4 sets of HSPU's, 4 min rest between each set, and then after those are done, 4 sets of pullups, 4 min rest between each set? Would that be alright?

1. Sixty to ninety seconds in between sets is plenty of rest.

2. Take your pick. Don't do more than two exercises if you choose to superset. If you choose to do supersets give yourself less time to rest in between sets. (Example of one superset: five pull/chin ups followed by five dips, rest 30-45 seconds then start second set of five pull/chin ups followed by five dips.)

Aren't you supposed to rest at least 3-5 min between sets when you do strength? Isn't 60-90s for the SSC when you do the FSP's? Or are you saying you should do the FBE's in a SSC manner?

Speaking strictly about fundamental bodyweight exercises.

To answer your questions. Here is a question I want you to answer with yourself in mind. Assuming you, personally, are capable of doing five inclined push ups with little effort. How much time will you need to rest before you do another set of five inclined push ups? (Inclined push ups means your feet are on the ground and your hands are placed on the back of your couch or something higher than your feet.)

Generally speaking. Muscular and neurological strength is developed over time as an individual progresses onto harder variations of a Fundamental Bodyweight Exercise.

For Fundamental Static Position training. In the book Building the Gymnastic Body at page 189 of the PDF version (Chapter 10 Program Design Options sub chapter Static Strength Training)  you will find the following quote. "4) Try to keep recovery periods between the sets reasonably short; forty five to ninety seconds max."
 

Dies Irae said:

Aren't you supposed to rest at least 3-5 min between sets when you do strength? Isn't 60-90s for the SSC when you do the FSP's? Or are you saying you should do the FBE's in a SSC manner?

Fundamental bodyweight exercises are not max strength, the volume should be significantly higher (like 60-80% of max sort of figure). More recent programming than BtGB reserves that kind of rest time for low rep true max str work on the rings. Basic strength work keeps rest to a minimum

I think i need to give actual examples if i am to be understood correctly here.

So for example: my max in floor HSPU's right now is 5. 5 are the most i can do with good form; if i were to try to do 6, i know that it would be very hard and i would barely squeeze it out, if not actually not be able to even do it.

I dont know if this would be considered working out "one rep short of failure". This is how i always do FBE's.

No. An example wasn't needed. At least not from my point of view.

I almost left the following behind in my last post.

"If one has to wait three to five minutes in between sets he or she isn't strong enough for the work load the body is being compelled to do and or the particular variation being attempted. If that is the case it is better to either reduce the total work load and or switch to an easier variation to deal with any muscular or neurological weaknesses."

If you want to be bull headed and still keep doing what you have been doing. Go right ahead just expect it to take a little bit longer to see any progress.

GoldenEagle said:

No. An example wasn't needed. At least not from my point of view.

 

I almost left the following behind in my last post.

 

"If one has to wait three to five minutes in between sets he or she isn't strong enough for the work load the body is being compelled to do and or the particular variation being attempted. If that is the case it is better to either reduce the total work load and or switch to an easier variation to deal with any muscular or neurological weaknesses."

 

If you want to be bull headed and still keep doing what you have been doing. Go right ahead just expect it to take a little bit longer to see any progress.

Well you see, I don't understand 100% how working out is, that's why i am asking here because i want to know.

There are things like these which seem to be common knowledge to most people who exercise, but not to me, and that's what i want to find out.

What i don't get is the range of reps you should do with FBE's that dont use weights. With weights it's easier because you can just calculate your 1RM and then just take out a percentage.

So could you just give me an example of how many reps i should do with the example i gave you? With my example of 5 max reps with good form of HSPU, should i be doing 3 reps for each set or something like that?

Please bear with me because i repeat, i don't understand 100% how all this works.

Thanks.

Ok look, i think i know how you can tell me what i want to know.

The book recommends doing 3-5 reps for each FBE, so my only question and doubt is, would these be 3-5 max reps with good form? And if not, what percentage of max reps with good form would 3-5 reps be? 50%? More?

Jon Douglas said:

Fundamental bodyweight exercises are not max strength, the volume should be significantly higher (like 60-80% of max sort of figure). More recent programming than BtGB reserves that kind of rest time for low rep true max str work on the rings. Basic strength work keeps rest to a minimum

Sorry, i hadn't read this carefully.

So it is as you say here, you have to do 60-80% of your max reps with FBE's?

I'm sorry but im just still a noob.

I got it now, sorry for the repeated posts.

I just noticed the book says you should operate at 70% of your capacity when doing basic strength, i hadn't noticed that.

Now my only question is, when do you start adding more reps or make the exercise harder? Do you try every 2 workouts or more than that?

You add more repetitions when you physically have the strength to do so.

Developing the additional strength is a matter of slowing down the concentric and or the eccentric phases of all of your repetitions. If that isn't enough there is isometric contractions/"Embedded static holds" during the concentric and or the eccentric phases of a single repetition.

GoldenEagle said:

You add more repetitions when you physically have the strength to do so.

 

Well yeah, but what i meant was, how often do you test to see if you can advance.

Dies Irae said:

Well yeah, but what i meant was, how often do you test to see if you can advance.

I don't think there's a specific time of reps that you should reach here.. It's more of how you feel with it, if you feel like you have mastered it, then upgrade.

Personnally, I never start a harder variation before reaching a minimum of 5x5 perfect form with no problem..

So let's say I start at 3x3, then after mabey two workouts I'd up it to 3x5, then two workouts later I'd try 5x5, etc.

But that's just me, idk how others do it

Dies Irae said:

Well yeah, but what i meant was, how often do you test to see if you can advance.

Trust me, you will know when you have the additional strength to do another rep.

Are you still having trouble doing six reps of headstand to handstand push ups?

Did all of your former weight training experience suddenly evaporate out of your head when you started doing "Body weight" training instead of "Free weight" training?

GoldenEagle said:

Are you still having trouble doing six reps of headstand to handstand push ups?

I wouldn't know because i haven't tried.

I guess that now that i know how i should be doing things this really isn't a concern anymore.

Dies Irae said:

I wouldn't know because i haven't tried.

I guess that now that i know how i should be doing things this really isn't a concern anymore.

You'll feel it bro, we there's no magic numbers.. It's really how you feel, if u think you're ready for the harder variation, then try it if you fail, just go back to the previous one and keep working careful with injuries tho!

Just to be clear here, when the book says you should operate at 70% capacity for the FBE's, what percentage is that of? The max number of reps you can do?

Also, can you still progress if you do some exercises only once or twice a week? Wouldn't that take too long, and wouldn't you be like rusty each time you get to do the exercise again, since it's been several or many days since you last did it?

It goes without saying that i still haven't exercised for say at least 2 or 3 weeks with the sort of schedule the book gives you, but i am just asking beforehand to see how things are.

I will miss several days of any sort of exercise right now because yesterday i played a tennis match and i played close to the limit so i am super sore right now and can't do anything.

1. Yes, the max number of repetitions assuming you the exercises with a slower tempo.

2a. Yes 2b. No

I don't know what's going on but doing the FBE's this way doesn't seem to work for me.

It has been more than 2 weeks and i have seen no progress at all, and, on the contrary, i seem to have gotten even weaker.

The FSP's and the Handstand seem to be going fine, but like i said not the FBE's.

I'm doing pull and push exercises paired, 5 sets of each, 45s rest between sets, with 70% of my max reps, as i was told here.

But i only feel like i am regressing and going backwards doing it this way.

Am i doing something wrong? Is it supposed to be this way?

It's like the tortoise and the hare, progress is slow and steady, if you push hard and fast you will burn out and find later that you are not fully prepared in terms of strength and joint prepardness and this is a lesson i have learnt.

If you are not completing reps, you lack the strength,for now if you are not progressing, dial it back and change the tempo, if you are still not progressing you might be overreaching for your current ability.

Good luck with the training and looking forward to see how you progress

eko_zero said:

It's like the tortoise and the hare, progress is slow and steady, if you push hard and fast you will burn out and find later that you are not fully prepared in terms of strength and joint prepardness and this is a lesson i have learnt.

If you are not completing reps, you lack the strength,for now if you are not progressing, dial it back and change the tempo, if you are still not progressing you might be overreaching for your current ability.

Good luck with the training and looking forward to see how you progress

The way I used to train before I was able to do 8 dips with 15kg on in a fairly short time, having started being able only to do like 4-5. I reached that max of 8 but then for some reason I don't remember anymore I changed something and haven't been able to do 8 since. I don't remember being burned out or tired or anything like that; I think that maybe what happened was that I took long rest times between sets and since I would just lie there waiting I began to get really bored and suffocated by it so I probably reverted to short rest times and there must have gone my strength.

I will make an experiment and do what I did before to see if I get the same results because what I'm doing right now sucks.

yeah i can relate to that with short rest times, i had to dial back the reps to recover, for example my arch body rocks i could complete easy 5-6 sets of 60+ reps with 1-2min rest but then i followed better programming (shorter rest and some mobility inbetween(as my rest))and found that i could only complete one set of 60r then i felt weak,and could only do an 3 more sets of 12 reps. it showed me holes in my programming, i have found that reading all over these forums have helped and the old articles.

Give yourself 12 weeks with one or two "Deload" weeks before you start complaining about "No Progress."