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hype

Ideal reps and sets for strength?

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hype

Hi guys,

For purely strength, how many reps and sets should I be doing?

BtGB says 3x5, but

I read that 5x5 is better.

What is the optimal rep and set for strength?

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GoldenEagle

In the book BtGB Coach states a minimum of 5 sets of 5. [if you have the pdf version of the book, see page 192 in the second paragraph and the second sentence. Or Chapter Ten (Program Design), sub section: Basic Strength Training, Second paragraph second sentence]

 

How many sets and reps you do is ultimately up to you.

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Klemen Bobnar

I belive he said in the recent podcast with Rob Wolf 3x3 for strength, 5x5 for both and 3x10 for more hypertrophy. But it depends on what you are doing.

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Connor Davies

I prefer not to train maximal strength, as I find my strength on harder progressions still improves with sets of 5-15 on easier progressions.

 

Remember that maximal strength is not the same thing as an appropriate working level.

 

Also bodyweight is a little harder to program an exact rep scheme for than weight lifting.  5x5 is a progression standard rather than an ideal workout.  Singles may occasionally be necessary when you're moving up a level, but shouldn't make up the bulk of your training.

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hype

In the book BtGB Coach states a minimum of 5 sets of 5. [if you have the pdf version of the book, see page 192 in the second paragraph and the second sentence. Or Chapter Ten (Program Design), sub section: Basic Strength Training, Second paragraph second sentence]

How many sets and reps you do is ultimately up to you.

Actually I believe this is wrong, BtGB clearly states that coach uses 2-3 sets of 3-5 reps.

He only mentions the 5x5 template in the program design saying that only a FEW athletes will NEED to work in the 5x5 range to progress like everyone else who are progressing with the 3x5 range.

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hype

I belive he said in the recent podcast with Rob Wolf 3x3 for strength, 5x5 for both and 3x10 for more hypertrophy. But it depends on what you are doing.

If this is true than 5x5 is my way to go. I want strength and gain a bit of muscle mass on the way so.. Both would be the best option I think

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David McManamon

I don't think anyone on this forum can tell you your "ideal" number.  Everyone is different, different work capacities and recovery.  You have to train to a certain level of fatigue during a workout then rest and repeat.  Training hard and do so consistently and your body will adapt.  3x5 or 5x5 is a good starting baseline to determine what your workload should be.

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GoldenEagle

Actually I believe this is wrong, BtGB clearly states that coach uses 2-3 sets of 3-5 reps.

He only mentions the 5x5 template in the program design saying that only a FEW athletes will NEED to work in the 5x5 range to progress like everyone else who are progressing with the 3x5 range.

To quote BtGB:

 

"Most trainees should plan on working in sets of either 3x3 or 3x5; with all of these being work sets. There are two exceptions however to this general rule. (Exception 1)Typically it is best for pre-pubescent athletes to use a very simple template of 1x3-5 reps. While it is true that these younger athletes are capable of incredible gains in strength, the total volume (tonnage) of weight moved in higher volume work simply cuts too deeply into their limited recovery ability. 

 

(Exception 2)There are also other athletes, an admittedly very small minority, who absolutely stagnate when forced to follow low repetition low volume training. They require an absolute minimum of 5 sets of 5 reps during their basic strength training in order to receive the correct neurological stimulation for their particular physiology.  Unfortunately, there is no way to accurately predict who will need the additional volume other than practical experience.

 

If, after all of the above, additional hypertrophy is still required for an exceptionally slim athlete to be able to perform adequately, a template of 10x3 work sets done every two minutes or a pyramid structure of 12,10,8,6 reps with increasing training loads as the repetitions decrease will usually resolve the issue."

 

(See page 192 of the pdf version of BtGB or Chapter 10 Program Design Options, Sub-chapter Basic Strength Training) Emphasis added where needed. Italicized text added for clarification

 

If you want to argue about what Coach Sommer wrote in his book. Feel free to take it up to Coach. Don't be surprised if, for some reason, has changed his mind and now advocates 5 sets of 5 reps.

Personally speaking: Feel free to do how ever many sets and reps your personal body type needs. Considering my own fitness goals I choose to follow a pyramid structure for my sets for most of the progressions I am currently doing. If you are curious enough and wish to know. The pyramid structure I am following is: 15, 12, 10, 10, 8, 5. Feel free to try it with standard parallel bar dips.

 

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hype

To quote BtGB:

 

If you want to argue about what Coach Sommer wrote in his book. Feel free to take it up to Coach. 

 

No need to get frustrated here, I just corrected what you said. And from what you just quoted of the book, my reply was absolutely correct. 

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Alessandro Mainente

All the strength programs work from 1 to 5 reps for a minimum of 3 sets up to 5-6.

Of course the repetitions range could be changed in function of the % of fibers of a muscles and considering the function of the muscles.

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GoldenEagle

No need to get frustrated here, I just corrected what you said. And from what you just quoted of the book, my reply was absolutely correct. 

Technically it wasn't entirely correct. The place where 2-3 sets is mentioned is in Appendix A (Tips to increasing pull ups) "The improvement came after a couple months of training assisted OACs (see the section on pull-ups) and performing them in 2-3 sets of 1-3 reps with a top static hold of 3-5 seconds on each repetition.

(Page 202 in the PDF version of the book)

 

 

Honestly, I am far from frustrated. Until just recently I couldn't imagine where in the, majority of the, book Coach mentioned 2-3 sets as you have claimed.

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hype

To quote BtGB,

"Most trainees should plan on working in sets of either 3x3 or 3x5"

Man, are we reading the same book?

Anyways, who cares about that, let's not fight over what's written in a book. My question was just about the reps and sets for maximan strength, and it has been answered.

Thanks.

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Coach Sommer

The Foundation Courses supersede BtGB.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Connor Davies

The Foundation Courses supersede BtGB.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

From what I remember hype picked up an old copy of BtGB from somewhere :ph34r: and has to program out of that because he lacks the money to purchase F1.

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Merunas Astrauskas

From what I remember hype picked up an old copy of BtGB from somewhere :ph34r: and has to program out of that because he lacks the money to purchase F1.

LOL. Just checked amazon and new copies start at $111.

 

I wonder, is it possible to buy a printed copy of the book from anywhere?

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hype

If you were wondering i got BtGB for free from a guy that I know that workouts in the same park as I do. He did not specify it, but I take it only as a borrow and I'll give it back to him very soon.
 

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ForzaCavaliere

The exact number doesn't really matter, just put it as 5 or less reps per set if all you really want is max strength increase and nothing else.

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hype

Alright, thanks :)

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Volodzko

I see where Coach Sommer has also addressed this in a 2009 post (https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/2317-why-3-5-reps/) but I don't see where he has discussed the ideal number of sets/reps per workout. If I'm missing it, would someone please provide the link?

 

Specifically, I'm referring to the number of sets and reps per exercise. So, for example, today I worked on my press handstand. I did 3 sets of 3 reps for each of the following exercises: press on rings (with foam boxes placed where a wall might be so I could rest my head against it for support), press on parallettes, press from straddle to standing, presses on the floor.

 

I also did some muscle-up work, which included 3x3 forward rolls on rings, weighted muscle-ups, wide muscle-ups and regular muscle-ups.

 

Am I on the right track here or am I overdoing it? In other words, should I simply choose the one press to handstand variation and one muscle-up variation, do each 3x3 times, and that's all for the day? That would, for example, cut my daily handstand pushup reps from 45 to 9. Finally, if indeed I should only be doing 3x3 total, is that for the day? Or is it advised to maybe do 3x3 handstand pushups in the morning nd then come back and do another 3x3 later in the day? Thanks for your time.

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Nicholas Sortino

5x5 is pretty popular in the lifting world.  Roughly 20-30 reps total is pretty good for strength.  More than that and you are pushing the limits into work capacity/hypertrophy.  Less and it may not be enough TUT or stimulus to build more muscle necessary for lasting strength gains.  But this all stems from lifting and not GST, so I could be way off base here.

 

If you can handle working in the 45 rep range maybe move onto harder variations that you cannot do so many of?  Back down to around 25 total reps.

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