GST and rotator cuff injury

So I have been doing GST for about half a year now. But my training is limited to excersizes that do not require me to work out with hands above shoulder height, because it hurts.

I have already been assigned specific excersizes to strengthen my shoulder so I am looking into fixing this within months. But I want to do GST while having this problem.

Excersizes that I cannot do: Handstands, headstands, pull ups, deep dips and front pulls. Can I substitute these in any good manner so it will not severily hurt my training?

No, given the limitations you described there is nothing to be done for upper body GST until you heal.

Were you following Foundation?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I have not bought any of the Foundation series yet, because I wanted to find out wether or not I could start a differentiated program right away.

Currently I am doing a modification of my own inspired from BtGB and Overcoming Gravity. In short it looks like this:

Tucked planche training

Pseudo planche pushups

BL training

One legged, elevated ring rows

Single leg squat

Inverted ring rows (because FL is stressing shoulder too much)

Weighted calf raises

L-sit windshield wipers, elevated

I do some dumbbell work for the internal and external shoulder rotators too.

This is done M/W/F.

If it is not too troubling for you,  a short comment regarding this would be much appreciated (:

You need to back way off and let your shoulder heal. Your absolute number one priority at this point should be giving your shoulder time to rest and performing the rehabilitative exercises you've been prescribed. 

Do you have a real injury, or a simple impingement? Already an impingement can you hinder 100% to lift your arm. But with the best exercises you can overcome it in weeks, it's more a question of re-centering your shoulder than of  healing.

My physical therapist told me that I could (and should) still work out because being physical active in general enhances recovery speed. I should, however, refrain from excersizes that caused pain or even the slightest unease, since that would put me back to the beginning.

My excersizes focus on building the muscles around the rotator cuff to fix muscular imbalances. I do stretches to achieve my previous flexibility in the shoulder (it hurts like hell). This is what I was told to do.

My question is how well I can do GST without doing over-shoulder excersizes.

AlexanderE said:

My physical therapist told me that I could (and should) still work out because being physical active in general enhances recovery speed. I should, however, refrain from excersizes that caused pain or even the slightest unease, since that would put me back to the beginning.

 

My excersizes focus on building the muscles around the rotator cuff to fix muscular imbalances. I do stretches to achieve my previous flexibility in the shoulder (it hurts like hell). This is what I was told to do.

 

My question is how well I can do GST without doing over-shoulder excersizes.

Continuing to be physically active is a good idea. Attempting to continue doing high intensity strength training while your shoulder heals is not. You suffered an injury that seriously impairs your ability to do GST. 

I would recommend taking a week or two completely off of GST. Continue stretching and performing the rehab exercises your trainer gave you. After your break, you need to start up at a much lower intensity. Your injury arose because you were not well prepared for training the elements you'd selected for yourself. Rather than training the hardest exercises you can perform, it's more beneficial in the long term to choose an easy exercise and work on it until you can no longer make efficient gains from doing so. A good place to start would be reading through the prerequisites thread here. Mastering those basic exercises will help carry you a long way through your GST journey. The Foundation series offers a much more complete and comprehensive guide - it's definitely worth looking into. 

I do appreciate your advice and the time you put into replying.

The injury did, however, arise because of muscular imbalance in the shoulder. I was playing volleyball quite frequently, and my earlier weight lifting program did (because I had no clue about anything until months ago) not contain any horizontal pulling or vertical overhead pushing.

So the injury arose slowly, since I was screwing up my body every time I worked out and played volleyball. At first I did not notice it coming. So the injury was not caused by a single event; at first I simply ignored the program because I thought it was soreness.

In my opinion I should be able to continue my above-mentioned program (with great caution of course, since every wrong move will stall progress). I do not think that, as of right now, that my program will prevent me from recovering.

I respect your advice, but I will continue, since I can tell that my shoulder feels better every time, and theoratically I am doing nothing wrong in my training.

Thank you for your advice.

You are incorrect.  Your program as outline above is clearly beyond your current abilities.  I know that you don't want to hear it; but it is what it is.  To stubbornly continue to use it, despite your already being injured once, is only going to result in further injuries.

It is however your body and you are free to abuse it as you see fit.  Once you get tired of getting injured, we will be here.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

That program you outlined is too intense for me these days (as I do foundation). I however, achieved a substandard straddle planche, among other things, and never got hurt, but I still can't handle a program like that.

Whenever I go to clinic I see people coming in with musculoskeletal injuries, and no one wants to hear the truth: Your body takes a long time to heal.

When your therapist said exercise, she didn't mean that program.

Yet, it is your body, so do as you wish.

I know you must be tired of me at this time.

I have had the night to think about your advice. How would it look if I reduced the amount of sets to 2-3 (I did 4-5 earlier, statics 8) and cut out half of the excersizes? So that I only workout to maintain my current physique.

It would be something like:

Planche progressions (my ultimate goal)

BL (doing it had cured some weak back problems I have had earlier)

Row progression (this one is part of my rehab excersizes)

L-sit

Single leg squats

and of course my other rehab excersizes

I chose statics because they will not "overload" my training the same way as dynamics. these will be performed for 4-5 sets. Dynamics will be for 2 sets.

How does that sound (I know it is not the same as skipping everything, but it must be better)

It sounds like a terrible idea. You need to rest, and then you need to completely reformulate your program. 

At least try to take 2 weeks off and see if it helps. What have you got to lose?

Stop preoccupying yourself with your physique... your shoulder health is far more important. Go back to basics and rebuild from the ground up. F1 will help you identify your weak links as will H1. You won't come up with a better program than that so you'd be as well to bite the bullet and spend the money if you have it.

I had a rotator cuff injury last winter and can tell you about my experience. Prior to foundation, I did all of the exercises you mention except for the calf raises, and therefore know the amount of tension required for tucked planche, PPP, front levers and back levers. 

I stopped training once I got injured but then bought the foundation series when it first came out. I started the program from the beginning, and only had to make one or two modifications to keep myself from aggravating my shoulder. My rule was that every movement would be with control, and no movement should cause my shoulder any pain. Over time, I was able to do more and more with my shoulder, but it only recovered to 100% after about 9 months despite not aggravating it. 

My recommendation would therefore be to stop all these high tension exercises you're doing, get F1, start with the easiest progressions and skip any that cause pain, or modify them to make them safe. For instance, there's a shoulder mobility exercise that requires one to rotate a weight vertically overhead. I initially skipped that exercise on my affected shoulder, then started with no weight once the movement didn't cause any undue pain, and then slowly progressed with a fraction of the weight I was using with the uninjured arm until my shoulder healed. 

If you have imbalances in your shoulders (or anywhere else for that matter), the foundation program will find them and will fix them at a pace that will prevent further injury, so that by the time you're done, your shoulders (and entire body) will be much less injury prone than before. 

The only price you have to pay other than the cost of the program, is that you'll have to swallow your pride. Many of us had equivalent or superior strength to what you describe above, but made a choice to go back and start from scratch to make sure we did things the right way. If you still think you're different and these comments don't apply to you, look-up Adriano Augusto's posts to see how a previously very strong person approached the earliest progressions of F1. You should then check out his YouTube channel to see how strong he was a year ago when he started the Foundation program (Full FL, Full BL, one armed chin, etc...). Finally, if you're really worried about your physique, check out what he looks like after a year spent on nothing but the earliest progressions of the Foundation series here https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/12513-muscle-gain-with-f1/page-2

Thank you for your reply -MR. You seem to know your subject.

I do not have the money for F1 so I cannot start doing it. My physical therapist looked through my program (the first one) and vouched for it, he also perscribed several additional excersizes targeting shoulder rotation as you said.

The only thing that is hard to swollow here is the fact that it took you 9 months to recover. As stated previously in the thread, I have cut down the most tensionful and only look to maintain my current strength. This plus the rehab excersizes I have outweights F1's potential gains (I think). F1 costs a lot too, and I had this program designed for me.

I will think about what you said, thank you.