Why I'm not following Foundation.

MattProulx said:

I have been sticking strictly to the program for 4 months and at times I feel like I've hit road blocks and have gotten weaker in some areas, but to be honest that is because I used to go hard before and now with a program I started to think all that I had to do was the minimum.

If you can do more, do more, don't hold yourself back. I'll be honest some of the advice from this forum is not solid, some people are saying don't do cardio this many days a week, don't workout more than the program etc, I am not naming anyone but those people hold themselves back. As the coach has said many times, you can play with stuff after your workout, this is where you get new perspective, fresh stuff, and feel less stuck, it might also help you overcome plateaus. Anytime I ever get stuck on anything I know that I am being lazy, as someone who has spent their life working hard physically I know that I have learned to slack where I can to make up for where I can't, this does not work in this program or any program where you expect results. I agree we are all different, but through hard work and determination the differences are subtle.

The thing is that the amount of volume you can handle is a very individual and even time sensitive thing (not so much as in whether you have enough time, although that too, but more so like at this period of time in your life).

It's impossible for people to know everyone else's training history, individual work capacity, work or life stressors, age, nutritional and sleep habits and recovery modalities. The course does address this individuality to an extent though and give several examples of schedules which range from low to higher volume to attempt to accommodate this reality.

Thus, when people seemingly get stuck and it becomes evident that they are piling tons of additional conditioning and strength training (*cough* CF *cough*) on top of their Foundation work and are wondering why they are spinning their wheels the easiest answer is to drop the supplementary work and just focus on Foundation.

That's not the same thing as suggesting that any additional work on top of Foundation will automatically destroy progress for everyone though. Like you said, if you can handle more, do more. But if you can't, then don't. It could also be argued I think that if you can do more and haven't increased your weekly volume of Foundation work that doing so would be your best use of time and energy (at least in regards to progressing with the program), so adding entire workouts while only doing a low volume of weekly Foundation work probably isn't going to produce the best results.

One last thing which changed my paradigm in terms of training and my concept of priorities when doing so is something that Coach said during his recent podcast interview with Robb Wolf. What he said was (paraphrasing) that as adults many of us are out of balance athletically, especially in regards to mobility; which is one of the main reasons that he created the Foundation course and made the Integrated Mobility a mandatory component therein.

Thus, continuing to add loads of additional conditioning or strength work without the same amount of additional mobility work (or even more in some cases) onto an already out of balance athletic foundation is only going to serve to keep the foundation out of balance. Hence the recommendation to focus the majority of time and energy on Foundation work.

Just my 2 cents.

Joshua Slocum said:

If you're doing Foundation with an appropriate amount of volume, you *should* feel like you're capable of more. Operating at maximum capacity doesn't leave you with time for recovery.

 

Exactly, Coach talks about this a bit as well. In the Robb Wolf pod cast he mentioned people who max out all the time, every workout. But even at a world class level, he only peaks an athlete once, maybe twice a year. If I recall correctly, I think that he also mentioned at the previous London seminar that he kept Allan on the same strength schedule in terms of sets and reps for a whole year, and he still got stronger.

 

Once you've done the work you need to do, play a bit. But personally I don't think you should be doing more and more just because you feel you can.

Joshua Slocum said:

If you're doing Foundation with an appropriate amount of volume, you *should* feel like you're capable of more. Operating at maximum capacity doesn't leave you with time for recovery.

It took me most of my life to figure this out. It's so tempting to do more because you can but that's not sustainable in the long term.

I should clarify what I meant by doing more, I am not very good with explaining things so others understand that I am thinking. What I meant to say was that if you can do more than what you are doing but stick to the bare minimum of the program and do nothing outside of the program(jogging, running, stretching), then you really are hindering yourself. How many times have I read that the Coach has said most of us are not working hard enough, I know this is true for myself, and I am not necessarily talking about volume or intensity, but stuff like pushing on when it gets tougher, finishing a set instead of stopping where its more comfortable. I have a favorite quote that has reminded me everytime I feel like quitting, to just hold out a little longer, "If you do what you've always done, you get what you've always got." 

Bipocni, this thread has gotten us all too "touchy- feely" and were getting softer every post. I need you to come out with a reply claiming that your back "harder than ever, and down for your set". Let us know you have been smashing weights around and tired of "The Man" and your ready to get back to "Bid-ness" with GST.

 

xoxo 

RJS

 

I definitely have best results now that I always try to do more. I always do 5 sets to get the iMs worked. But I am in so low level that don't know what my program will look in the long run. Probably the normal schedule If I can add 1 rep in 5 sets total I'm happy

 

This motivates me the most and I think this is a huge part.

Joshua Slocum said:

If you're doing Foundation with an appropriate amount of volume, you *should* feel like you're capable of more. Operating at maximum capacity doesn't leave you with time for recovery.

Can you elaborate on this? I mean last week my workout was 5 sets of 1 arm planks, 30 seconds each arm (pretty easy), followed by 300 arch body rocks (brutal), followed by 50 Pseudo Planche Pushups (freakin' evil) and I topped it all off with 50 ground rows (don't even ask). Now yeah- I guess I was capable of more if I really had to, but I didn't, and even consuming a ton of nutrition my body was exhausted. Now I'm doing my deload week, I'll be repeating Pseudo Planche Pushups at week 9, but the rest of the stuff I'll be testing for mastery and probably coming in to a new set of movements with a tough amount of volume.

 

Am I doing it wrong? Should I be starting at week 1 for some of these things just to give myself a break? So far I have just been kicking my ass for 3 consecutive weeks and counting on the deload week for rest.

I think Joshua is talking about the average load. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less, depending on where you are in the cycle. I too feel pretty spent on week 11 if many exercises have been tested for mastery.

Joshua Slocum said:

Like every other exercise, the form demonstrated in the video is the minimum required for mastery. [There are some exceptions to this, e.g. RC/PE1, where the video contains an error]

Is this video correct now? I just purchased H1 & F1 two weeks ago.  I am not seeing the athlete's glutes on the floor while performing the exercise.  He starts of sitting but lifts himself into position to perform the exercise.

IcedDante said:

Can you elaborate on this? I mean last week my workout was 5 sets of 1 arm planks, 30 seconds each arm (pretty easy), followed by 300 arch body rocks (brutal), followed by 50 Pseudo Planche Pushups (freakin' evil) and I topped it all off with 50 ground rows (don't even ask). Now yeah- I guess I was capable of more if I really had to, but I didn't, and even consuming a ton of nutrition my body was exhausted. Now I'm doing my deload week, I'll be repeating Pseudo Planche Pushups at week 9, but the rest of the stuff I'll be testing for mastery and probably coming in to a new set of movements with a tough amount of volume.

 

Am I doing it wrong? Should I be starting at week 1 for some of these things just to give myself a break? So far I have just been kicking my ass for 3 consecutive weeks and counting on the deload week for rest.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was talking about the frequency of your workouts, not the intensity of an individual workout. What I meant was that you should feel like you're capable of more total work volume throughout the week. If an individual workout leaves you totally exhausted, that's fine - if you're on week 11 on several elements, it should feel pretty brutal. However, by the time the next workout comes around, you should feel completely recharged and ready to go. When the week is over, you should feel like you could have battled your way through an extra workout. 

Mike71 said:

Is this video correct now? I just purchased H1 & F1 two weeks ago.  I am not seeing the athlete's glutes on the floor while performing the exercise.  He starts of sitting but lifts himself into position to perform the exercise.

Yeah, it was recently changed.

To me everyone is different and should listen to their bodies. For me the original template completely does nothing in terms of a good progress. Those max efforts of planche than front levers and rope climb and hollow back presses were simply too much in one session. It is a quite a lot of shoulder work in one day. Performing max effort for one of the exercise will surly affect the other one if the same muscle group is used. Remember that each of us will be at different stage of each exercises, so you might end up using your shoulders for every exercise. I simply perform just two exercises in one session, for example: planche and front lever on Mon and hollow press and rope climb on the second day, third day would be for mana human flag and legs, than I repeat. I end up training 6 times a week, but improvement is huge when compared to the original template.

Igor Czerniawski said:

.....It is a quite a lot of shoulder work in one day......

I always wondered how F7 would work for someone doing side levers and mannas as well.  That's 6 shoulder exercises....

If only there were a progression of Elements that could Prepare you for that sort of high work volume...

I think f7 is an end goal and something we should all strive to eventually get to but we have years to build up to it so it shouldn't be a problem. I personally am loving how much shoulder stuff there is in gymnastics. I have always had small shoulders and arms compared to my legs chest and back but now they are growing at an insane rate and if eel so stable and strong in my shoulders it is such a nice feeling. Really looking for ward to planche leans because it feels like once you have those down pat you will enter beast mode! I imagine I'll be stuck on them for a while though. Focusing on pushing hard on one plateauing exercise at a time though seems to be the way to break through.

If you've been really concentrating on protraction in the previous progressions, planche leans aren't so bad. They're actually my strongest element currently because I made sure my form was perfect on the previous progressions.

aiken54 said:

If you've been really concentrating on protraction in the previous progressions, planche leans aren't so bad. They're actually my strongest element currently because I made sure my form was perfect on the previous progressions.

The wrist prep from H1 helps a lot too....

The reason I think he leans will be a sticking point for me is because of my seriously weak anterior deltoid..... It is getting significantly stronger but I guess we will see. Unfortunately I will be on ppp around the same time as the leans >.< this should make for some. Ice shoulder developments Nd maybe I'll finally have decent strength there !

From my experience, I think those who struggle with the "repetition" of F1 are either a) not paying attention to their progress, b) not working hard enough, c) not doing something correctly or d) not suited to Foundation.

 

If you only think about doing more difficult elements, then yes, you will notice the repetition. But the point is not really about the elements themselves, it's about the specific, strategic stresses they place on your body so you adapt into the athlete you want to be. Every workout should feel different and look different - as in, you should regularly be moving closer to your goal.

 

Even if you're stuck on Week 1 for ages, you should be feeling small distinguishments in intensity of strain, pain levels, ease of full ROM etc. It should feel easier from one week to the next.

 

The most extreme example... I've been working on ABH for 49 weeks, and just finished my 119th session with the element. I am nearly at the stage I can move from 4x12s to 5x12s (week 1.5 to week 2). It sounds repetitive on paper, but I can honestly say no two of those 119 sessions have felt alike. The sensations in my body have felt different every time.

 

If the Foundation road is not for you, that's fine. But if it really is for you, and you're just frustrated, spend less time looking at the element you are doing and more time experiencing the body it is creating. You may feel less stuck as a result.

I must admit I agree with Wheezer. It sometimes seems frustrating to plateau on an element, but at the same time, the elements I've been stuck on longest have actually yielded the greatest gains. I must remind myself of this and that the process is part of the goal. It's essentially just a workout, I'm doing it to get stronger, and I'm always moving forward. If I was working the bench press I'd be doing the same thing, only more bored. I do think sometimes you need to get creative to make progress. For instance, with hollow body holds I have been working for a while to get to the 5x60. I felt stuck at about 60, 60, 50, 50, 45, and couldn't seem to build the capacity for volume. So now when I get to the breaking point I put my arms down to my side and that makes it just enough easier that I can build to where I'm doing 5x60, but the end seconds are a little easier. I'm getting to where I am doing less of the arms by side and more of the arms overhead. And regardless of how long it's taking to master, my abs and core feel awesome for it and that's really the goal. It's not like I'm not getting a workout out of it.

See I found being stuck on some elements incredibly boring, but then I find myself excited to repeat the same barbell lifts for years on end.....  Perhaps it's because I can play around with the loading parameters a bit more, which is harder to replicate with a single bodyweight exercise and the whole reason we need progressions in the first place.....

Sounds like it is a personal preference thing, then.

 

I can understand the enjoyment of being able to make small weight changes. But personally, the idea of doing two weeks of barbell work bores me s___less.

Bipocni said:

***

So, how did it go? It's been almost 9 months. Have you restarted Foundation? Are you the new world record holder for cossack squats? Don't leave us hanging!