Push ups

I'm curious about the push up form.

It's a very basic exercise, and there are countless articles written on how to perform it; however, they all pretty much say different things. When doing the push up, do I lead with the shoulders neutral(neither protracted or retracted) on the eccentric/concentric allowing the wrists to stay completely in line with the elbow?

I guess what I'm asking is just like with the squat/deadlift where you lead with the hips/glutes sitting back first and knees bending as the range increases, do the shoulders/elbows during the pushup act like the hips/knees in the deadlift?

The way I see pushups, is that they are a jack of all trades, there are so many variations which makes them the exercise it is.

You shouldnt worry about the form, try and copy the video as best as it goes, for personal reasons i always keep my elbows tucked in. I did both variations you mentioned right now, leading with the shoulders made my arms flare, where as keeping my elbow and wrist in line didnt feel right. 

I guess the right form would be to simply do them so that they are difficult, sure follow f1 as far as it goes, but afterwards just mix it all up. I understand you worrying about form but its easier to explain what NOT to do then what to do.

- Dont sag your body

- Dont pike

- Dont keep going if you have intense/sharp pain in your joints

- Dont do half reps

If you still need some more pointers pm me and ill send you an extract of a book I have. 

To be honest, pushups are the bottom of strength exercises as far as im concerned, focus on dips and do those well instead

Watch 2 people do pushups the same exact way and both will say the other guy is doing it wrong. If you go for full ROM in a controlled manner I bet you 99.9% of the time you will be doing them right.

Robmob said:

The way I see pushups, is that they are a jack of all trades, there are so many variations which makes them the exercise it is.

You shouldnt worry about the form, try and copy the video as best as it goes, for personal reasons i always keep my elbows tucked in. I did both variations you mentioned right now, leading with the shoulders made my arms flare, where as keeping my elbow and wrist in line didnt feel right. 

I guess the right form would be to simply do them so that they are difficult, sure follow f1 as far as it goes, but afterwards just mix it all up. I understand you worrying about form but its easier to explain what NOT to do then what to do.

 

- Dont sag your body

- Dont pike

- Dont keep going if you have intense/sharp pain in your joints

- Dont do half reps

 

If you still need some more pointers pm me and ill send you an extract of a book I have. 

 

To be honest, pushups are the bottom of strength exercises as far as im concerned, focus on dips and do those well instead

Awesome, Thank you. I have always done them "military style" amrap in 2 minutes, and going through the full range of motion in a controlled manner is actually tough, and it just got me thinking more about form quality vs rep quantity.

Ive brought my elbows in, and keep a solid semi hollow plank through out the full range of motion keeping my wrists inline with my elbow. I feel it much greater in my shoulder and triceps versus my chest now.

As for the dips comment, are vertical pressing skills such as handstand push ups and dips superior to horizontal for upper body pressing strength?

There's only one way to do a pushup.

-straight body line

-elbows in

-scapula protracted at top

-chest as low as possible to the floor

Hmms said:

There's only one way to do a pushup.

 

-straight body line

-elbows in

-scapula protracted at top

-chest as low as possible to the floor

True, but many "professionals" have different definitions for each of those. I've had coaches define elbows in being as much as 45 degree angle being allowed and others wanting 0-30 degree angles. For my PT test, as long as chest comes closed fist width it's close to the ground, but again some coaches define it as elbows breaking 90 degree bend allowing shoulders and elbows to be parallel.

Keeping a protracted scapula proves you have a strong serratus anterior. You should strive to keep it protracted, but retraction towards the bottom is acceptable.

PrimalMove said:

True, but many "professionals" have different definitions for each of those. I've had coaches define elbows in being as much as 45 degree angle being allowed and others wanting 0-30 degree angles. For my PT test, as long as chest comes closed fist width it's close to the ground, but again some coaches define it as elbows breaking 90 degree bend allowing shoulders and elbows to be parallel.

Imagine yourself trying to push a door open.  Does it feel more natural to have the elbow as close to your as possible or a 45 degree angle?  Second, in the bottom position, if the elbow and shoulders are parallel, that's not enough range of motion.  This time imagine yourself pulling a door towards you, your elbows should go farther back than your body.

Push-ups done with elbows flared 45 degrees isn't wrong, it's just a different variation. For the foundation purposes, it is best to stick with elbows in as it makes it a bit harder due to requiring more triceps strength and is more specific to the end goal of HBP. 

PrimalMove said:

As for the dips comment, are vertical pressing skills such as handstand push ups and dips superior to horizontal for upper body pressing strength?

Not necessarily, they work different ROMs in shoulder flexion. Dips and HSPUs are harder than basic push-ups, but planche push-ups (horizontal) or even far-leaning PPPs work the muscles harder.

I like how this guy does them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwN4BDo0JFY

Thank you all for the replies and the video link.

PrimalMove said:

Awesome, Thank you. I have always done them "military style" amrap in 2 minutes, and going through the full range of motion in a controlled manner is actually tough, and it just got me thinking more about form quality vs rep quantity.

Ive brought my elbows in, and keep a solid semi hollow plank through out the full range of motion keeping my wrists inline with my elbow. I feel it much greater in my shoulder and triceps versus my chest now.

As for the dips comment, are vertical pressing skills such as handstand push ups and dips superior to horizontal for upper body pressing strength?

A lot of people underestimate the difficulty of proper pushups, they are used in every,if not nearly every, military program around the world.

Your form seems to be perfect, what you describe is what I feel when I do PPP and Planche Holds.

Your second question already has a good answer. I believe that horizontal work is just as effective as vertical, try benching 100 kilos and then try military pressing them, you wont say that either are easy but the benching will always be so. Keep in mind that when you do horizontal movements, body weight based or not, you will always use your biggest upperbody muscles, your pecs and maybe even your back, when you do vertical movement you use your back and chest as well but at different angles, this holds also true for every muscle. At the same time, F1 being bodyweight only, you need to consider that it is easier to programm someone to start doing Pushups then Dips then HSPU than Pushups then Planche pushups. Coach wrote a good section in BGTB i believe and also in F1 in the intro, but dont quote me on that.

Robmob said:

A lot of people underestimate the difficulty of proper pushups, they are used in every,if not nearly every, military program around the world.

Your form seems to be perfect, what you describe is what I feel when I do PPP and Planche Holds.

Your second question already has a good answer. I believe that horizontal work is just as effective as vertical, try benching 100 kilos and then try military pressing them, you wont say that either are easy but the benching will always be so. Keep in mind that when you do horizontal movements, body weight based or not, you will always use your biggest upperbody muscles, your pecs and maybe even your back, when you do vertical movement you use your back and chest as well but at different angles, this holds also true for every muscle. At the same time, F1 being bodyweight only, you need to consider that it is easier to programm someone to start doing Pushups then Dips then HSPU than Pushups then Planche pushups. Coach wrote a good section in BGTB i believe and also in F1 in the intro, but dont quote me on that.

Yes-- as well as increasing resistance (decreasing leverage), the progression is also simple to complex.

B1214N said:

Push-ups done with elbows flared 45 degrees isn't wrong, it's just a different variation. For the foundation purposes, it is best to stick with elbows in as it makes it a bit harder due to requiring more triceps strength and is more specific to the end goal of HBP. 

 

45 degrees is unnatural.  Foundation didn't invent pushups, the right way's been used for thousands of years

Hmms said:

45 degrees is unnatural. Foundation didn't invent pushups, the right way's been used for thousands of years

Unnatural? Please explain

Keegan Y said:

Unnatural? Please explain

I already did in this thread:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/13844-push-ups/?p=135614

F1 bodyweight only... ha! and Mister Xiaopeng?     Is a killer in betweenm both pushups or PPP.

Hmms said:

45 degrees is unnatural.  Foundation didn't invent pushups, the right way's been used for thousands of years

Elbows flared out 30-45 degrees for push-ups actually feel more natural for me than elbows all the way in. This could be because I was originally taught that way for standard form push-ups or it really is more natural for me. I think 0-45 degrees is safe. Of course for F1 purposes, you should do push-ups the way it is demonstrated (elbows in).

As for the right way or one way for push-ups has been used for thousands of years, do you have a source for that?

Robmob said:

A lot of people underestimate the difficulty of proper pushups, they are used in every,if not nearly every, military program around the world.

Your form seems to be perfect, what you describe is what I feel when I do PPP and Planche Holds.

 

Your second question already has a good answer. I believe that horizontal work is just as effective as vertical, try benching 100 kilos and then try military pressing them, you wont say that either are easy but the benching will always be so. Keep in mind that when you do horizontal movements, body weight based or not, you will always use your biggest upperbody muscles, your pecs and maybe even your back, when you do vertical movement you use your back and chest as well but at different angles, this holds also true for every muscle. At the same time, F1 being bodyweight only, you need to consider that it is easier to programm someone to start doing Pushups then Dips then HSPU than Pushups then Planche pushups. Coach wrote a good section in BGTB i believe and also in F1 in the intro, but dont quote me on that.

I've been looking for BGTB, but I can't seem to find a copy of it, but thank you for your explanation on vertical vs horizontal pressing. I guess the same goes for pulling as well.

Hmms said:

There's only one way to do a pushup.

There are hundreds of ways to do a pushup.

Robmob said:

Coach wrote a good section in BGTB i believe and also in F1 in the intro, but dont quote me on that.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. 

I've been striving to keep my forearms vertical during the entire pushup movement, which has taken halfway between a standard pushup and a pseudo planche pushup.  My hands end up somewhere around the bottom of my ribcage.

B1214N said:

Elbows flared out 30-45 degrees for push-ups actually feel more natural for me than elbows all the way in. This could be because I was originally taught that way for standard form push-ups or it really is more natural for me. I think 0-45 degrees is safe. Of course for F1 purposes, you should do push-ups the way it is demonstrated (elbows in).

 

As for the right way or one way for push-ups has been used for thousands of years, do you have a source for that?

Go back to where I said about pushing open a door.  Does it feel more natural for you to push open a door when your elbows flared out 45 degrees?

As for asking me to provide a source, it's kinda like asking me to provide a source about whether the Ancient Greeks thousands of years ago really lived in Greece.  It's citing common knowledge

Bipocni said:

There are hundreds of ways to do a pushup.

Okay, do you want to name 10 of them for me?

One arm, archer, diamond, wide, wrist, hindu, plyometric, incline, decline, lever, kneeling, superman's, gecko, divebomber, diagonal, maltese, yoga...to name a few.

MT Nordic said:

One arm, archer, diamond, wide, wrist, hindu, plyometric, incline, decline, lever, kneeling, superman's, gecko, divebomber, diagonal, maltese, yoga...to name a few.

A one arm push-up is different than a push-up. An archer push-up is different than a pushup. A diamond push-up is different than a push-up. So is wrist, Hindu, Plyometric and every single other push-ups you just named. So my point still stands only one way to do a pushup