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Hivoyer

Weighted Acrobatics?

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Hivoyer

Will it be beneficial to say-perform flips and other acrobatic movements with added weight,like backflips with a weight vest.Would this improve performance or the stress on the connective tissue is too much?I tried doing front flips with 6kg weight and got a really sore lower back and calves. :D

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Coach Sommer

For advanced trainees, yes, this is a very effective training methodology. For others who are less than advanced, I do not recommend it.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Tom Weksler

Coach, could you write alittle more about this subject?

In my point of view this kind of training could hurt the accuracy and coordination that is required in order to perfrom high level tumbling and acrobatics. I based this opinion on the assumption that at some level tumbling and acrobatics become a matter of mastering techinque and not neccesarilly physical condition. I heard that one of your athletes has worked on his back lay out for a very long time and in 2 monthes period from when it was perfected he managed to land a triple full twisting lay out.

Some coaches use alot of tumbling work up to higher surfeses (stacked mats), what is your opininon on this type of training?

Sticking a complicated element on stacked mats could be a demanding task but it is entirely diffrent from sticking it on the floor.

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Coach Sommer
I heard that one of your athletes has worked on his back lay out for a very long time and in 2 monthes period from when it was perfected he managed to land a triple full twisting lay out.

Yes, I did indeed have one athlete that literally took me three years to teach a correct back layout with a half twist. Now granted, I am a technically demanding coach and was not going to permit him to progress onward until it was correct; but three years is a very long time to wait for it to "click" :roll:! Well one day it finally did click, and within the next two months he learned a full, full and a half, double full, two and a half and triple full. He also learned to twist forward as well in the same progressive half-twist variations. He ultimately learned to somersault all the way up to a triple back flip onto mats and a quintuple front flip off of the trampoline into the pit. Later after stopping gymnastics training, he went into trampoline where he nearly qualified to the World Championships for the USA. The moral of the story is that patience and the pursuit of quality usually pays large dividends (and being (un)lucky enough to have a coach who is ridiculously focused 8)).

Coach, could you write a little more about this subject?

Generally weighted acrobatic work is reserved for simple conditioning elements such as simple punch fronts and back flips; although certain high level athletes will also incorporate it directly into their training. One Chinese Olympic gymnast comes to mind (Lou Yun perhaps?), who was reported to train his optional vaults (a front handspring front layout with a 1/2 twist and a front handspring front layout with 1 1/2 twists) with an additional 10-15lbs on him in the form of either a belt or vest. Now it is also important to note that this sort of training is not something to enter into casually; that 10-15 extra pounds was also multiplied by approximately 14xs during both the board punch and the landing which added considerably to his already high training load.

As previously mentioned, working up onto stacked mats also works extremely well; it requires a marginal increase in height, but more importantly it also forces the athlete to focus strongly on increasing rotation. To progress into advanced skills, an increase in the speed of rotation is far more important than an increase in height. For example the difference between the height of a triple back and a double back on floor is in the neighborhood of only six inches; but the increase in rotation is 50%!! As a concrete example of the benefits of working onto stacked surfaces, I taught one athlete a laid out double full in pike out ( 2 twists on the first straight body back flip followed by a piked second back flip - all performed while in the air during a single jump) by having him become proficient at performing a roundoff backhandspring double twisting 1 1/4 back flip onto head high stacked mats.

Now all of this being said, it is important to remember that these are advanced training techniques used by high level athletes with years of correct preparation; both physical and technical. For someone to prematurely insert these methods into their training will probably be frustrating at a minimum, as well as potentially opening themselves to injury (either immediate or overuse) at the maximum.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Tom Weksler

Thank you for the response coach - informative and inspiring.

Unlike gymnasts i was exposed to advnaced tumbling passes (including double flips of several kinds and multiple twists both ways) at late age (18) but with a strong and well conditioned body (thanx to my teacher and coach Ido). Therefor, I try to understand as much as i can The technical side and the Development of Air awareness. Any information on those topics in the future will be greatly apreciated.

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Gregor

Yes, I did indeed have one athlete that literally took me three years to teach a correct back layout with a half twist. Now granted, I am a technically demanding coach and was not going to permit him to progress onward until it was correct; but three years is a very long time to wait for it to "click" :roll:! Well one day it finally did click, and within the next two months he learned a full, full and a half, double full, two and a half and triple full. He also learned to twist forward as well in the same progressive half-twist variations.

That is simmilar with my maltese and dismount :lol::lol: I needed two years to get my maltese straight and in the line (although I was strong enough to do it at the begining, but aomething with my muscle coordination was serously wrong, I still don't know anybody to had such big problems with muscle coordination).

For dismount from double tucked 360°(I was always lost in 720°) to double straight took me " years after I've done double straight I've done my first double straight 360° in two weeks time in two month they were consistan after half year good enough for dismount at the end of routine. Now we will try to incorporate in my routine double straight with 720° (only few in world are doing it right now).

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Wangtang6911

I see the guys training with weight belts on in China all the time. They will use them for tumbling, pommels circles, rings strength, swings to handstand on p-bars, giants.

All the movements they do are very basic though.

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Joshua Naterman

Yes, I did indeed have one athlete that literally took me three years to teach a correct back layout with a half twist. Now granted, I am a technically demanding coach and was not going to permit him to progress onward until it was correct; but three years is a very long time to wait for it to "click" :roll:! Well one day it finally did click, and within the next two months he learned a full, full and a half, double full, two and a half and triple full. He also learned to twist forward as well in the same progressive half-twist variations.

That is simmilar with my maltese and dismount :lol::lol: I needed two years to get my maltese straight and in the line (although I was strong enough to do it at the begining, but aomething with my muscle coordination was serously wrong, I still don't know anybody to had such big problems with muscle coordination).

For dismount from double tucked 360°(I was always lost in 720°) to double straight took me " years after I've done double straight I've done my first double straight 360° in two weeks time in two month they were consistan after half year good enough for dismount at the end of routine. Now we will try to incorporate in my routine double straight with 720° (only few in world are doing it right now).

Your maltese is really awesome, I was super impressed when I saw how straight you hold it in the world cup video!

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Gregor

Thanx, I need to repair it a little more,...cca. 2cm to low.

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