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Started by Jon Douglas, October 28, 2013 · 145 Replies · 57,499 Views
Rachid Tahri said:In case you aren't already doing them in between sets: I would add in some Jefferson Curls. They have a sort of healing effect after the back arch. Have fun
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Good idea, I should shuffle those around. Can't believe I didn't think of that! >.<
Hows the back limber going?
Bipocni said:Hows the back limber going?
A bit better than the front one. Here's today, maybe rep 7-8/10;
It's nothing mind-blowing, but I think the difference to the previous videos is pretty obvious.
Edit;
Usually I wait until I am sure I have a steady HS before I reach over my head; think I got a bit hasty when I put the camera on 
Still a bit of knee bend and some hop to iron out but it's coming along.
So just for the record I'm still working those four drills;
Back
a) Lower from stand to bridge
b) Bridge hop to HS to stand
Front
a) More of a limber-- as shown above, HS hold lower slowly as possible down to bridge and either stand up or bridge hop from there
b) (Very) limited-ROM reverse planche reps, lower as far as possible and pull back to HS
All for (as many attempts as necessary to get) 10 good reps each,4-6 days a week. Improvements are rapid and the drills feel superb on the whole body. Doesn't usually take more than a few minutes.
Jon: my compliments! I'm at the moment also working on back limbers from an elevated surface. Can't wait to post my first bridge hop from the ground. Just to let you know that you are not alone in the back limber journey 
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Rachid Tahri said:Jon: my compliments! I'm at the moment also working on back limbers from an elevated surface. Can't wait to post my first bridge hop from the ground. Just to let you know that you are not alone in the back limber journey
One day I hope to be as strong as a six year old girl.
One day.
One day I hope to be as strong as an ant .
Man, those limbers are awesome, I'd like to train those myself. However, there's so much cool stuff to do and learn, and given my schedule, it can't all be learned at once. Am I better off putting this on the back burner until I've progressed further in the F-series? At the moment my back bridge suffers from bent arms and legs, but then again, I haven't practiced it for ages, apart from the FL/im's
Nice oneRachid Tahri said:One day I hope to be as strong as an ant
Ravn -- post a pic? How's your shoulder flexion?
All feel free to use this thread to discuss/ compare thsee movements, that helps build up a resource for everyone in one place
It's vastly better than in April. I'll take a couple of handstand and back bridge pics tomorow and post. We'll see.
Do you always come down so heavy on the front limber?
Other than that, it's remarkably improved since the last video you posted. You're making excellent progress. Since it's coming along so quickly, can I assume that this is mostly skill development, rather than actual strength training?
There's definitely a skill component involved! Especially if you use hops or momentum in the bridge hop. In a couple of days I 'got' the timing right (when to jump and how to open shoulders at the right time) and could lower my feet from 50 cm to 8 cm. This or next week I hope to have a solid bridge hop from the floor. Other than this I am still novice and I think Jon can elaborate more on this.
Bipocni said:Do you always come down so heavy on the front limber?
Other than that, it's remarkably improved since the last video you posted. You're making excellent progress. Since it's coming along so quickly, can I assume that this is mostly skill development, rather than actual strength training?
Not usually; I reach forward as far as possible and then put my feet down. I would say it's generally not quite so far down and not really a fall, but I guess that's about a middle of the road attempt. I generally end up with quite a decent hold, surprising myself, but the pull for reps is another question completely. That's nuts.
Rachid Tahri said:There's definitely a skill component involved! Especially if you use hops or momentum in the bridge hop. In a couple of days I 'got' the timing right (when to jump and how to open shoulders at the right time) and could lower my feet from 50 cm to 8 cm. This or next week I hope to have a solid bridge hop from the floor. Other than this I am still novice and I think Jon can elaborate more on this.
Yeah, it's been more about co-ordination and skill so far; shapes and balance. This is just because I'm not strong or flexible enough to work it as hard as elevated bridge pulls or reverse planche reps; it'll definitely transition into strength from mobility work as it improves.
I was thinking-- It'd be really interesting to hear from a handbalancer's perspective about training the reverse planche position, but at the same time I'm not sure my handstand is strong enough to really benefit from their advice.
Those in the know, does this impression of limber work fall near the mark?
Sorry for using your thread to ask a question.
For the back limber:
After lowering into the bridge, the aim is to 'pull' the feet off the floor into HS. Essentially it is going through a reverse planche position right?
If that is the case, why is it harder to hold a reverse planche with the feet barely touching the floor if it is possible to pull through that range of motion?
Was refering to the essay by coach when he said that only 1 of his gymnasts was able to pull from reverse planche with feet just of the floor (or was it at just that point of time?)
Small bump~
How's everyone going with this?
I've gotten very comfortable with back limbers. But I'm still unable to initiate it with a pull; it's easy once I'm off the ground even with a small hop but I can't quite get there without momentum. I can feel the weight on my hands, but not enough to move to HS.
Is anyone training this regularly? Any hints on how to begin the pull or how you developed it? I'm really not sure an elevated bridge pull is all that useful, because the temptation is to make it more flexibility, lean a little further over the shoulders, and it becomes both easier and a different movement to hands and feet on the ground.
Would appreciate any advice
Rev pl reps are going well; these are a wonderful stretch for whole torso! Nothing yet to write home about in terms of progress, but they're coming along.
First and foremost, you want to spend more time developing your bridge. I watched the last progress video you posted and you're doing well and your back/shoulder flexibility is okay but less than ideal for limbers. The key is in the name of the movement- limber. You can develop the flexibility by continuing to train the limbers, but also I would stretch your bridge a lot. I mean a lot. How much is a lot? For you, I would say to try holding 5 bridges for one minute each time. And still thats not a lot. Although it is a lot to get used to, it will really change your backbend and the accessibility of your flexibility. Backbends are a B#%!H. Do bridges with your feet elevated. And do bridges with your hands elevated. You'll feel the difference and the combination will give a well roundedness to your back flexibility. Your bridge shouldn't look or feel strained. But thats what I see when I watched the video.
How easy is standing to bridge for you? And bridge to standing? How many can you do in a row? Can you do them both slow with control and also fast? Do your arms stay over your head when standing up from a bridge? Or do they kind of flail out to the sides?
When you do your front limber in the video, you land in a bridge that is not with shoulders over hands. That is something I would want to see in a student. KEEP YOUR SHOULDERS OVER YOUR HANDS UNTIL YOUR FEET ARE ON THE FLOOR. You can achieve this by counter balancing as you lower. That is, keeping the weight of the upper body over and past the wrists. Does that make sense? its hard to explain without a visual.
If I was you, I wouldn't concern myself too much with pulling off the ground with no momentum, for now. When you're able to do rows of front and back limbers down the mat with ease, that will be a more appropriate time to try pulling.
If you really do want to work on pulling(and I know you do) try doing it from a forearm bridge instead of hands. Actually I'd like to see what that position looks like on you. I think it would be a really good addition to your bridge stretching variations. I don't mean the elbow bridge in F2, but more like a forearm stand with your feet on the floor.
When you jump or pull, you obviously want to get your weight onto your hands and off your feet. When pulling, you want to lean your shoulders waaaayyy past your hands until your feet come off the ground. Similar concept to the planche lean, but different. Extending completely through the shoulders and pushing strong with the fingers. You get off the ground by leaning over the shoulders, and it takes a good degree of flexibility .If you pause the video at :40-:41, you'll see that his shoulders are well past his hands. To execute this without momentum, I would lean even further.
And doing it with feet elevated, is very relevant actually. It lets you get enough weight onto the hands to try pulling over. You speculated that it would make it too much about flexibility. But thats just the point. The more flexible you are the easier this is going to be. You have some flexibility already, and you're plenty strong and coordinated, but if you can bring the flexibility up a notch or two, you'll see good results in the limber walkover variations. The move is best executed by people with well developed flexibility. For most adults its gonna be a slow and sometimes painful process. So take your time, there's a lot of ways to injure yourself doing backbends.
I hope thats of some help.
Thanks very much for taking the time to write that; do you mind my asking your gymnastic/training background? I appreciate the corrections hugely.
How easy is standing to bridge for you?
-Easy, but I need to warm up with a couple of press up to bridges from the ground.
And bridge to standing?
- Easy if I allow myself a hop from the ground
How many can you do in a row?
-At will, I do one set of 10 each training day
Can you do them both slow with control and also fast?
- Mm, I do them fast and slow but I can't say I'm 100% in control of that speed, if I do them particularly slowly it's usually because my balance is a little off. Nice pick.
When you do your front limber in the video, you land in a bridge that is not with shoulders over hands. That is something I would want to see in a student. KEEP YOUR SHOULDERS OVER YOUR HANDS UNTIL YOUR FEET ARE ON THE FLOOR. You can achieve this by counter balancing as you lower. That is, keeping the weight of the upper body over and past the wrists. Does that make sense? its hard to explain without a visual.
-Yes, this is something I've learnt since then, pressing the chest out in front of the hands. I've come along quite a bit since the last video there; I do them both as front limbers and moving towards Mexican handstand and back for reps.
If you really do want to work on pulling(and I know you do) try doing it from a forearm bridge instead of hands. Actually I'd like to see what that position looks like on you.
- Two different forearm bridge holds are attached.
For most adults its gonna be a slow and sometimes painful process. So take your time, there's a lot of ways to injure yourself doing backbends.
- I appreciate that and am working it slowly and steadily I don't experience any pain, discomfort and I don't mind monotony if it pays off, this is just new territory for me
I'm having an off day with my balance; I'd put that at about 70-80% of regular training performance.
Your time is much appreciated
Those back limbers don't look any better at all >.< this always happens when I try to video something...
Yes, videoing is a great revealer - is that real grass? It looks like astroturf ;-)
Those new videos look pretty good. And you look a lot more flexible. That's the flexibility I want to see before teaching someone limbers/walkovers. Nice.
I want to emphasize the value of mastering standing to bridge and return to standing. And I mean with good form. Reach arms over head and actively open the shoulders, reaching up up up while arching back starting from the shoulders and work your way down the spine while pushing your hips waaayy forward to keep the weight on your feet as long as possible.
The video is ok but the arms flailing to spare your back, and you're also kind of throwing your back down instead of reaching up and arching back. Reaching up is the first part of a backbend. I asked if you keep your arms overhead when dropping to bridge and returning to standing. You answered that you keep them overhead, but in both videos they are falling out to the sides(and bending a lot). This is important if you want to get it right.
I would recommend practicing standing to bridge and recover, with good form. And working to multiple sets. When I say multiple sets, I mean down and right back up again with no pause in between and right back down again, etc… you don't need to muscle through the whole movement, just control it. Its okay to "hop" back to standing. arms overhead, arms overhead, arms overhead.
I would also put some focus on leaning the hips far forward when lowering to bridge. Push the hips forward when standing up from bridge or front limber.
The forearm bridge looks good. Get comfortable in that position, its a good one. When you're better at standing to bridge(straight arms overhead), you'll be able to lower all the way to that forearm bridge and kick over. Its cool. You're more flexible than I thought so I'd say go ahead and practice leaning as far over as you can and holding there. Breathing and relaxing into the position. Progressively leaning farther and farther and you'll see that you can pull out of it pretty easily with your level of strength. But don't get too ambitious, take your time. It opens your chest so much its easy to strain the intercostals, etc…
You're smart to be working on lowering to mexican and return.
I like coming out of a back limber with my legs together as well, but note that its usually taught and executed with a step out. Its good both ways but stepping out will feel better on those bad back days.
You asked about my training background. I trained circus acrobatics for about fifteen years solid. General acrobats with specialty of trapeze, and contortion. I performed a partner trapeze act for about 10 years, I performed contortion as well, but not as much. I trained with a whole slew of people from all over the world. Lots of serious flexibility training with Chinese acrobats, Mongolian contortionists, and Russian acro and rhythmic gymnasts. I also have extensive study in dance and yoga. I quit the circus life some years ago though, and since then I suffered a pretty debilitating hip injury that took away a lot of my ROM. Bummer for me. Meanwhile I got old and out of shape. LOL. I finally am healing up and getting back into things, largely inspired by the GB program. Nowadays I mostly just stretch out a lot, work on handstands, do Foundation, go the circus gym 2-3 times a week to play around. I'm no expert at GST by any means, but I do know these limber/walkover movements really well. Cheers man.
I just saw the next video you posted. Nice keeping the arms overhead. Now take out the pause at bridge and just hop right over to handstand. I notice that when you lower to bridge you lose your footing and are kind of standing on your heels. Don't do that. You don't want to do that be cause you want to be able to jump immediately into your handstand and you can't do that from your heels.
Try this: lower to your bridge and simply practice jumping onto your hands while leaning the shoulder. Just do it like 5 times or something. It'll start teaching you to smooth out the transition between bridge and handstand.
Thanks heaps! That's a lot to digest and it's extremely appreciated! 
I have a minor circus/ mostly martial arts background but technical gymnastics is completely new ground for me, and the detail is very hard to pick up without having access to a coach in-person.
I think the standing and lower to bridge is the weakest part of the movement for me; until this thread came up I hadn't even tried it with straight legs, and co-ordination of reaching *back* is quite distinct from just arching over and reaching down.
So right now; for back limber build a better bridge/elbow bridge with time in the postion, work the hell out of stand-to-bridge and pay closer attention to details (arms overhead, locked). Continue working and improving with front limber as is, same foci. Do I have the gist?
Re the feet together and the HS to Mexican HS, I am working from Coach's approach in the short essay on page 1 of this thread.
Thanks again for your time and feedback
LateStarter@46 said:Yes, videoing is a great revealer - is that real grass? It looks like astroturf ;-)
Yes, that was grass that has since been replaced with an Astroturf putting green. Although it's less pleasant to fall on than grass, it doesn't get slippery either, and is my favourite place to train handstands etc at home.
daniel sarnowski said:I just saw the next video you posted. Nice keeping the arms overhead. Now take out the pause at bridge and just hop right over to handstand. I notice that when you lower to bridge you lose your footing and are kind of standing on your heels. Don't do that. You don't want to do that be cause you want to be able to jump immediately into your handstand and you can't do that from your heels.
Try this: lower to your bridge and simply practice jumping onto your hands while leaning the shoulder. Just do it like 5 times or something. It'll start teaching you to smooth out the transition between bridge and handstand.
Gotcha. I guess I have gotten onto the habit of training each half as connected but distinct movements. I'll work on that, thanks again
Jon Douglas said:How easy is standing to bridge for you?
-Easy, but I need to warm up with a couple of press up to bridges from the ground.
And bridge to standing?
- Easy if I allow myself a hop from the ground
Well, my own contribution is going to pale in comparison to that posted above but I'd say this is your problem right here. You've basically skipped a progression. I've always thought that the stand-to-stand bridge should be mastered before even beginning limber work. If you can't pull out of a bridge onto your feet, how can you pull out of a bridge onto your hands? Eliminate the hop in one, and it should go a long way towards eliminating the hop in the other.
And yes, I know above he clearly states "it's okay to 'hop' back to standing" and by all means, listen to the advice of the guy who clearly knows more than I do. But once you can stand from a bridge, front limbers should be fairly easy for you. It would only be the reverse planche portion of the exercise that would give you trouble.
daniel sarnowski said:I'm no expert at GST by any means, but I do know these limber/walkover movements really well.
I'd say you do at that!