Front and back walkovers/limbers

Jon Douglas said:

Original schedule A: Mon/Thurs, B: Tues/Fri.

Now: Tues/Fri

Hi Jon-

 

I'm a little unclear as to your exact weekly schedule. Let me know if my understanding is correct:  you are doing all seven Foundation elements (F7) on Tues/Fri.

 

On Mon-Wed-Thu-Sat (I am assuming) you practice H1/2? So does R1 follow F7, or after H1/2... ? Or is there a dedicated R1 day?

 

Also, just to clarify, you perform no H1/2 on the F7 days?

 

Given my other physical commitments as well as schedule constraints, I am curious to continue to reduce overall days (this would be for April).

 

Thanks for your time

 

j

- F7 Tues and Fri

- H1/2 Mon, Wed, Thurs, Sat-- my priority atm.

- R1 after H on Mon and Thurs only, keeping it light.

Will move F7 to Mon/Thurs when I begin Rings training in earnest, but its light enough at this stage that I can do it the day before F work without a negative effect.

If time ran short, I would drop Wed and/or Sat without feeling worried about it, they're basically extra practise days on my weak spot, not necessary for everyone

Bipocni-

Naturally the stronger you get the more recovery time it takes. Coach mentioned that before he went to university, Allan was also capable of doing (by which I mean reaping full benefits from) real ring strength training twice a week.

Of course that wasn't his only time on the rings, he would have been doing skill training etc, and it doesn't mean he'd miss a beat if another day was added. But he gained faster on two devoted to str

Jon-

 

Thanks much for your response-

 

j

So, it's friday now.....  Where's that video you promised us?

I couldn't get another pull this week, so I'm going to leave it until I get one.

Jon, you are going down too much from your lower back and too loose. 

 

Notice how your hands don't start going back until you are half way down.

 

- Try starting with your hands overhead

- Reach back from the hands, fully flexing the shoulders

- Let the upper back be the next to follow into the back bend (however to help arch the upper back it may almost feel as if the chest is lifting at this point)

- Counter the backwards movement of the upper body by pressing forward with the hips, keep the legs straight as long as possible and work to extend the hips

- Maintain tension as long as possible, try to delay the fall to the ground until as late as possible through the counter play of hips forward and spine extending back 

Cole Dano said:

Jon, you are going down too much from your lower back and too loose. 

 

Notice how your hands don't start going back until you are half way down.

 

- Try starting with your hands overhead

- Reach back from the hands, fully flexing the shoulders

- Let the upper back be the next to follow into the back bend (however to help arch the upper back it may almost feel as if the chest is lifting at this point)

- Counter the backwards movement of the upper body by pressing forward with the hips, keep the legs straight as long as possible and work to extend the hips

- Maintain tension as long as possible, try to delay the fall to the ground until as late as possible through the counter play of hips forward and spine extending back 

Yes, this was long after my Foundation work and I was just messing around. I'm aware of those pointers (see prior in this thread) and have removed my video as being terrible.

 

Thank you for taking the time to advise anyway

If you can bear keeping it up, it's very useful for others to see, what you are doing is quite typical.

 

I can't tell you how may yoga students I've seen doing just this, but without the strength foundation you have. The result was generally lower back pain within a few months, and yet they still wouldn't listen.

Cole Dano said:

If you can bear keeping it up, it's very useful for others to see, what you are doing is quite typical.

 

I can't tell you how may yoga students I've seen doing just this, but without the strength foundation you have. The result was generally lower back pain within a few months, and yet they still wouldn't listen.

I didn't like anything I filmed and didn't intend to put it up at all, but I figured I would show willing; here we are as a cautionary tale;

 

 

Notably when I *did* get a couple of pulls last week, it was much more a chest/shoulder stretch-- straight legs, less lower back arch as Cole described above.

 

I'll put up something more inspiring after the weekend

- In addition to the tips provided by Cole, the decent back into the bridge itself should also be done SLOWLY. Lower to the ground with strength and control, do not simply fall onto the hands.

- Still a good bit of jumping occurring when the feet come off the ground.

- Do not be overly sensitive to the video not being perfect. The fastest way to make improvement is to receive immediate correction, not after you have spent weeks performing it incorrectly.

Overall however, this is a very good start and is coming along nicely. Now it becomes a process of continual refinement and strengthening.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

- In addition to the tips provided by Cole, the decent back into the bridge itself should also be done SLOWLY. Lower to the ground with strength and control, do not simply fall onto the hands.

- Still a good bit of jumping occurring when the feet come off the ground.

- Do not be overly sensitive to the video not being perfect. The fastest way to make improvement is to receive immediate correction, not after you have spent weeks performing it incorrectly.

Overall however, this is a very good start and is coming along nicely. Now it becomes a process of continual refinement and strengthening.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Fair enough, thanks for being gentle there. I get frustrated with myself when I'm not showing the best I'm capable of. More to come.

Jon Douglas said:

Fair enough, thanks for being gentle there. I get frustrated with myself when I'm not showing the best I'm capable of. More to come.

Can't wait.  You gotta remember, even on your worst day you're still miles ahead of most of us on our best days....

Three sets today. Advice humbly requested

 

Feeling the stretch mostly in the chest, trying to minimise lower back arch.

 

 

 

I have a question.  Why don't you pause in a handstand at the top of each rep?

Bipocni said:

I have a question.  Why don't you pause in a handstand at the top of each rep?

No real reason other than moving through the position. I suppose I should be doing that too.

Jon Douglas said:

No real reason other than moving through the position. I suppose I should be doing that too.

You could also lower back down toward your feet like a front limber or reverse planche.  Saves you having to walk around and set up again between reps, but I figure you probably just travel across the floor when you're not actively filming them.

Bipocni said:

You could also lower back down toward your feet like a front limber or reverse planche.  Saves you having to walk around and set up again between reps, but I figure you probably just travel across the floor when you're not actively filming them.

I do indeed.

I am planning to train it that way in future, but I want to get the lower to bridge correct first; currently I'm not ending up in quite a correct bridge and lower back issues are not part of my ideal future.

Press HS to rev planche toes brushing ground and back for reps is the ultimate goal, but I have a funny feeling that someone we all know will confirm there are no shortcuts to this.

Jon Douglas said:

I am planning to train it that way in future, but I want to get the lower to bridge correct first; currently I'm not ending up in quite a correct bridge and lower back issues are not part of my ideal future.

I wonder if this is why Coach had his athletes learn back limbers before they started training handsprings.  I mean, if you mess up a handspring you basically come crashing down into a bridge, and that could be hell on an unprepared spine....

Bump for please advise on these videos, hopefully not lost in the chatter

Jon Douglas said:

Bump for please advise on these videos, hopefully not lost in the chatter

Do you really feel that the advice from before isn't relevant to these videos you just posted, or are you just fishing?

Bipocni said:

Do you really feel that the advice from before isn't relevant to these videos you just posted, or are you just fishing?

How would anyone improve without feedback on their current abilities? Or do you think I can somehow train myself in this correctly without the input of an experienced teacher?

I can't. I don't know for certain whether my attempted corrections are moving me in the right direction, thus I'm asking for help. You can give it if you have the knowledge/experience or you can read about it from those who do until you get it; there's no need to snark about my asking.

Jon, it's still

- rushed

- bending from the lower back first and moving to the upper back and finally arms.

 

You're fortunate that you are strong and have a healthy lower back, but I've seen doing these this way destroy people's lower backs over time.

 

Let's say as a drill

- start with hands over head and try to stretch the arms back before you start bending at all, actively resist the bend in the lower back at first.

- take a few breaths doing this

- then breath deep into the chest and roll your rib cage up as you extend back from the upper back

- keep breathing and work to get your arms parallel with the ground (this is sort of like a reverse Mexican)

- after a few breaths there let the lower back come into play but DO NOT drop down, keep breathing and think you are going to get your arms pointing straight down to the ground while still keeping them in the air.

- Only when you've maxed this out, allow yourself to drop down

Thanks Cole, that helps a lot. Wrapping my head around these details is slow going.

I'll work it hard and check back in a few weeks. Cheers

Jon Douglas said:

.....there's no need to snark about my asking.

Easy there.  You misunderstand me.

 

From the timeframe of this thread, you were clearly comfortable training limbers without any feedback for a considerable length of time.  In fact, you weren't even going to post the initial video until I prompted you to.  Then within a few days you're asking for more feedback.  All I'm saying is that I doubt you've really had the opportunity to fully implement all of the advice you were just given.  Since no-one had given any further feedback, I anticipated that the advice you would be given is that you're still performing with the same errors you were in the initial video, and that you should continue to work on the feedback you were already given.

 

Obviously it's commendable to ask for assistance/instruction from those further along than you are.  We all had to learn from someone, and anyone who says they didn't is a liar and probably out to get you.  I was simply questioning whether you had progressed to the point that you needed some different guidance than that you had already received, as well as (attempting to) prompt you to reconsider the advice already given.

 

Sorry if it seems like I was being contemptuous.

I agree with Bipocni.  The former advice needs to be integrated and mastered first.

 

Patience.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer