Please help me to address strength gap: lower back/planches

B1214N said:

It still requires some lower back strength, not much, but a little. If one can do a tuck BL then he/she has enough lower back strength for a tuck planche.

Really? I had not only tuck but straight leg back lever before (prior to shoulder injury), but I was no where remotely near tuck planche. The best I ever did was straight arm frog stand, but even back then I had to rest knees on elbows for heavy support.

3bears said:

I'm confused about reverse leg lifts then--I've seen 2 different versions of these and then it's different from what described in the post here. Can you post video, pic or schematic for RLL?

Here's a quick schematics for dorsal lift. Freezing in lifted position...NOT easy...unless you got planche already...this is like keeping body tension for back lever kind of, but you hang off pommel horse or table, bench, balance beam. It gets hard as the edge of supporting structure moves close to sternum. Easier version with edge near navel.

Yes, these are what we call reverse leg lifts

Jon Douglas said:

Yes, these are what we call reverse leg lifts

I assume then only legs are lifted? Because in those entire lower body up to sternum is lifted. In circus manual it's reverse leg lifts when it's only the legs that get lifted, if it's more than just legs, it's "dorsal lifts"

3bears said:

I assume then only legs are lifted? Because in those entire lower body up to sternum is lifted. In circus manual it's reverse leg lifts when it's only the legs that get lifted.

I generally do them around navel level. I see what you mean then, I mis-understood the intricate diagram

Although primary focus is not lower back, working body levers would probably go a fair way for you. That and full protraction/upper/mid back engagement/proper lean while working tuck planche.

Jon Douglas said:

I generally do them around navel level. I see what you mean then, I mis-understood the intricate diagram

Although primary focus is not lower back, working body levers would probably go a fair way for you. That and full protraction/upper/mid back engagement/proper lean while working tuck planche.

Addendum;

I'm assuming you're already doing back pulls and reverse cranks, which should be plenty of back-oriented straight body work for your planche needs.

Jon Douglas said:

Addendum;

I'm assuming you're already doing back pulls and reverse cranks, which should be plenty of back-oriented straight body work for your planche needs.

I do these exercises but can only do with bent legs--tore rotator cuff a year ago and it's a long road back to previous strength...

3bears said:

I do these exercises but can only do with bent legs--tore rotator cuff a year ago and it's a long road back to previous strength...

Hmm. Are you doing weighted headstand leg raises? Wall handstand RLL?

 

Just kicking out some ideas at this point.

No, I don't do weighted headstand leg raises--no added weight.

As to handstand reverse leg lifts--I can't do one even, and that's where I feel lots of strain/lack of strength in lower back, exactly when I attempt to lift with straight legs into hand stand.

I'd just continue with headstand lifts and add weight.

3bears said:

No, I don't do weighted headstand leg raises--no added weight.

As to handstand reverse leg lifts--I can't do one even, and that's where I feel lots of strain/lack of strength in lower back, exactly when I attempt to lift with straight legs into hand stand.

I'd just continue with headstand lifts and add weight.

You don't have ankle weights or anything for HeS lig lifts?

You can do HS RLL from standing --> HS (stand farther back and lean further to decrease difficulty, try straddle before pike) or if you have a bar (stall bars are ideal) you can hang rather than HS.

If your shoulder allows it you can also work tuck BL --> straddle BL for reps, and/or pike BL --> layout.

 

Hope there's a couple of helpful ideas there

Jon Douglas said:

You don't have ankle weights or anything for HeS lig lifts?

You can do HS RLL from standing --> HS (stand farther back and lean further to decrease difficulty, try straddle before pike) or if you have a bar (stall bars are ideal) you can hang rather than HS.

If your shoulder allows it you can also work tuck BL --> straddle BL for reps, and/or pike BL --> layout.

 

Hope there's a couple of helpful ideas there

Don't have access to stall bars... What I do is lift to elbow stand (bent arms) *on rings* from L-seat...I think it works some of the same muscles but I have to bend legs to lift off, can't do straight legs. Can't lift into HS without kicking at all, it feels like the most difficult exercise I ever encountered...I think that with doing it from hang there's a lot of assist from other back muscles, so it's easy...unlike with HS on the floor.

This thread also made me think of this picture. Carmen is streets stronger than many men including me; respect your injury but don't sell yourself short

 

 

 

Again, locust pose.  It is basically an arch hold but with the lever arm starting at the shoulders.  Very planche specific.

Bipocni said:

Again, locust pose.  It is basically an arch hold but with the lever arm starting at the shoulders.  Very planche specific.

I thought about this locust...apparently I do it, just call it "chest stand" (thought it's more like standing on the front of your neck and side of face using arms to stabilize). I do it on table corner, as easy to grip on edges for stability. This is a lot easier than lifting into handstand. If chest has to stay on the floor tho, I say this move requires more flexibility in the back than I have. Hate static holds anyway.

I'm just throwing this one out there without any real idea what I'm talking about, but what about skin the cats / 360 pulls?  I had to stop training them because my elbows weren't adequately prepared, so I don't have much experience.  But pulling out of a german hang / back lever is probably pretty good lower back training.

 

I dunno.  If I'm wrong here, let me know.