Wait, so tell me that again... 
playing with HBP while maintaining my F2
Started by Alessandro Mainente, August 22, 2013 · 57 Replies · 25,492 Views
I think I understand, but I have no way of explaining that. I believe that if you can't explain something, you don't quite understand it.
Thus, what the hell?!
Hollow back = Arched back
Hollow = round back ?
Right, when I google "hollow back" on images, I get a bunch of bboys doing some arched back stuff.
I get it now. You're making a hollow with your back by arching it. They should call the regular hollow body position a "hollow front" instead, since you're using your front to create a hollow.
Hope this is the right line of thought. Otherwise I've just made myself look silly.
Question: Are HSPUs meant to be done with a hollow back or hollow body?
hollow body = round back, if you're going to make those analogies. It's an easy way to remember the basics.
Mitico Alessandro...sei la mia motivazione!!!!!
This is completely wrong.Joshua Naterman said:If you're talking about a Hollow Back Press, which is what Alex is demonstrating... well, again the name says it all. A hollow back is an arched back.
As was previously stated by another poster, a perfect HBP should indeed have a hollow back; but most end up having a small arch in the lower back. In no way should this be indicative that a 'hollow back is an arched back' or that a 'hollow back' is somehow distinctive from a 'hollowbody'.
As always a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Coach Sommer said:This is completely wrong.
As was previously stated by another poster, a perfect HBP should indeed have a hollow back; but most end up having a small arch in the lower back. In no way should this be indicative that a 'hollow back is an arched back' or that a 'hollow back' is somehow distinctive from a 'hollowbody'.
As always a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Can you explain what a hollow back looks like, to clear up the misunderstanding? My observations have been that it is a very shallowly arched back. That is what it looks like here.
I already have. Please re-read my previous post.
Do not over analyze the name. This is nothing more than an instance of a traditional name for an exercise not being 100% accurate in describing the mechanics of an exercise.
Also, while I know you meant well, do not further confuse the issue with made up definitions where a hollow is suddenly an arch. As I said previously, a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch. There is no such thing as a hollow arch.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
What about the reverse planche aka hollow back? It's super arched. Is it just another case of a traditional name not being accurate in describing the skill mechanics?
Coach Sommer said:I already have. Please re-read my previous post.
Do not over analyze the name. This is nothing more than an instance of a traditional name for an exercise not being 100% accurate in describing the mechanics of an exercise.
Also, while I know you meant well, do not further confuse the issue with made up definitions where a hollow is suddenly an arch. As I said previously, a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch. There is no such thing as a hollow arch.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Fair enough. Puts an end to that one 
Figured that was the case l, but I did wonder if there was any grounding in logical linguistics ~
B1214N said:What about the reverse planche aka hollow back? It's super arched. Is it just another case of a traditional name not being accurate in describing the skill mechanics?
A reverse planche has never been referred to as a hollow back in gymnastic circles.
And just so we are all on the same page, a reverse planche begins from a handstand and then, by opening/arching the shoulders and pressing the shoulders back behind the hands while keeping the arms locked, the body lowers forward until the back is horizontal to the ground; the "reversed" position of a regular planche.
The primary arch should be in the shoulder girdle/upper back with only moderate arch in the lower back.
Someone who has an exceptional reverse planche will be able to slowly lower over the top with an extended body until the feet lightly touch the ground and then pull back up to handstand.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Thanks for clearing things up Coach! I guess hollow back is what is referred to by breakdancers or is a different skill. I google image searched:reverse planche and all the people shown were doing it wrong with a heavily arched lower back. I have once seen an image of a correct form reverse planche a long time ago and it looked much cooler than the incorrect ones I just saw.
In biomechanical terms an arch is lumbar, thoracic and hip extension. The hollow is slight lumbar, thoracic and hip flexion.
That probably makes it more confusing! When I tell patients to arch there back they flex the spine. When I tell people to lay on there back they lay on there stomach. I think it is just something we find confusing, unless we study human movement with correct biomechanical terms.
I like Coach's description "a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch"
Coach Sommer said:This is completely wrong.
As was previously stated by another poster, a perfect HBP should indeed have a hollow back; but most end up having a small arch in the lower back. In no way should this be indicative that a 'hollow back is an arched back' or that a 'hollow back' is somehow distinctive from a 'hollowbody'.
As always a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
I thought so! After all that... 
hm interessting i always thought a reverse planche would be similiar to a reverse plank with feet not touching the ground
and hands below the hips...
Mark Collins said:In biomechanical terms an arch is lumbar, thoracic and hip extension. The hollow is slight lumbar, thoracic and hip flexion.
That probably makes it more confusing! When I tell patients to arch there back they flex the spine. When I tell people to lay on there back they lay on there stomach. I think it is just something we find confusing, unless we study human movement with correct biomechanical terms.
I like Coach's description "a hollow is a hollow and an arch is an arch"
That's where my confusion came from, because what I see in every HBP is lumbar extension, hip extension, and thoracic extension as it nears the halfway point on up. It's not much, but it's there. So, if hollow back press was an accurate name, a hollow back would be a slightly arched back.
What I am getting from this is that we are looking to maintain ideal planche shape while performing a bent arm press to handstand, is that correct?
I'm not at hbp practice yet, but it is nice to know what shape I will be looking for and what shape I will NOT be looking for. Thanks for clearing that up, Coach!
I am a while off the HBP. I still find it hard to maintain a hollow with the Psuedo Planche push up.
Joshua Naterman said:That's where my confusion came from, because what I see in every HBP is lumbar extension, hip extension, and thoracic extension as it nears the halfway point on up. It's not much, but it's there. So, if hollow back press was an accurate name, a hollow back would be a slightly arched back.
What I am getting from this is that we are looking to maintain ideal planche shape while performing a bent arm press to handstand, is that correct?
I see that too. Subtle, but it looks like there is extension.
Here in Italy we use the word "arched back" for what is similar to arch body shape and "rounded back" for the typical hollow shape of planche.
Alex, watching your videos again your HBP honestly looks much better than any others I can remember seeing, in terms of being able to maintain that shape. The Foundation work is really paying off!
thank you Joshua and YES Foundations is playing a big role in the automatic process of maintain the body shape, strength is not the only one secret. I'm at the point where , when i lose the hollow position, i fail to continue the movement. seems that perform the wrong way is harder then perform the correct way.
For the rest i can't remember how many push up and other movements i did always with correct hollow.
Push up for the mastery, push up for the warm up, planche mobility, push up in my gym outside GB strength protocol . all this stimuli probably reinforced the shape pattern. i always think about something that Matteo said to me "you have to push the rings/pbars 10 meters under the floor when you perform certain skills".
The very biggest problem for hbp that comes from my little experience is the control of general scapula section.
From the pushup position with depression and protraction until 45° where i start to elevate and then elevation plus protraction.
It's very strange how H1 and F series works together to build up the sensation of control on these components. Mobility is necessary to build up ROM on the scapula joints. As the active ROM exploration increase as i need less strengtt to maintain a non-exagerate level of protraction.
IM is not only about "gain flexibility" but , better, actively control your flexibility.
I don't know, until now, how many GB guys (who follow foundations) have experimented that, but i'm not surprised that this type of work is building up some strong National athletes.
It is ALL about muscle control, you are correct. I am finding this to be especially true for me also, and that is why I have mentioned a lot of things related to mind-muscle connections lately. It's important to have that connection, because then you can "turn up the juice" to the muscles that need it without losing control of the other parts of the motion. It's definitely more than raw strength.
Nice work!
pushup - same as plank. (protracted and depressed)
dips, from what i remember from memory is neutral shoulders and depressed shoulders. shoulders rolled forward is not what you're aiming for
HSPU - elevated and protracted