Knee pain during standing pike.

[Connor Davies]

When I do a standing pike, I need to bend my knees slightly in order to focus the stretch on my hamstrings.  If I do a pike stretch with locked knees, the backs of my knees feel some small pain.  I also can't stretch far enough forward to feel a stretch in my hamstrings.

 

So the emphasis has moved from my hamstrings (which I'm trying to stretch) to my knees (which sounds bad to me)

 

Anyway, I've heard that you're supposed to pike with locked knees, so has anyone got any advice here?  Is there something I'm missing?

[Joshua Naterman]

This is indicative of tight calves, to keep things simple. You should experiment with stretching the bottom of your feet, and then a straight leg calf stretch for each leg.

 

In your case, particularly, I think that 3 minute holds for the stretches are indicated. It sounds like the connective tissues may have tightened up, and we need to take advantage of the mechanical property called "creep" in order to fix this. The long hold times will accomplish two things:

 

1) will allow for the cells in the fascia to be pulled further apart from each other, relieving mechanical contraction, if this is an issue.

2) will allow your CNS to adjust to the new position

 

You should find a place where you feel tension, but not pain, and simply hold that for 3 minutes. This is not a hard stretch.

 

I will suggest you do a single leg calf stretch with completely straight legs. If you don't know how to do that, do a google search, but it's just ankle dorsiflexion with a straight knee on the back leg.

 

You will feel the tension melt away, do not keep exploring deeper into the stretch. Just let the tension disappear. Continuing to move into tension just reinforces the reflex of generating tension at the given ROM. Over time this ROM will continue to increase, and tends to happen quite regularly.

 

After that, use the same kind of tension and position  (no pain, just moderate tension, and don't move deeper into the stretch) for the straight leg pike. Whether you do your pikes standing or sitting is up to you. Eventually, sitting will very likely be more productive because it will let you learn how to pike more actively, but at first I would just do whatever is easier for you with straight legs.

 

There's nothing wrong with the bent knee stuff, but it can't do the same job as the straight knee version. Both can be useful, but for gymnastic goals the straight knee version is where most of your time needs to be spent.

[Connor Davies]

Thanks Joshua.  I've heard before that it's tight calves, but I can pistol squat without any problems with dorsiflexion, so I figured I was... special...

 

Yeah, it sound kinda stupid now.

 

Anyway, I trust your advice probably the most of anyone around here, so I'll definitely give that stretch a go.

[Connor Davies]

I've been doing some pancake stretches before MN/PE2 and I've noticed I get a different kind of knee pain during the pancake stretch.  This one is very much a pulling sensation on the inside of my knees.

 

Any advice for that?

[Jon Douglas]

As in, stretch on or around the sciatic nerve?

Calf and glute stretches solve that problem for me. even though hamstring is where i feel tight it is deceptive

[Connor Davies]

Think near the vmo but on the other side of the knee, maybe a little bit more to the side rather than on top.  I'm guessing it's where my adductors cross the knee, but I've never heard of anything on that part of the leg really.

[Joshua Naterman]

Thanks Joshua.  I've heard before that it's tight calves, but I can pistol squat without any problems with dorsiflexion, so I figured I was... special...

 

Yeah, it sound kinda stupid now.

 

Anyway, I trust your advice probably the most of anyone around here, so I'll definitely give that stretch a go.

A tight soleus would affect pistols, because it goes from the heel to the lower leg and is not affected by knee flexion, but tight gastrocs would not because the gastroc cannot contribute to ankle plantarflexion with a fully flexed knee. Tight gastrocs can easily cause pain behind the knees because they attach to the femoral condyles, but tight soleus would generally not because it attaches to the fibula and does not cross the knee. 

 

It's not stupid, you just weren't aware of how the different lower leg muscles might affect different movements! Knowing that is part of my job as an Exercise Physiologist. 

[Joshua Naterman]

I've been doing some pancake stretches before MN/PE2 and I've noticed I get a different kind of knee pain during the pancake stretch.  This one is very much a pulling sensation on the inside of my knees.

 

Any advice for that?

When you say a pulling sensation inside the knee, do you mean inside the knee joint itself or do you mean to the left of where the patellar tendon attaches to your lower leg, or somewhere else?

[Connor Davies]

I'm pretty sure it's where my adductor crosses the knee joint.  For the most part it's on my upper leg rather than my lower leg, but it crosses over a bit.  Not really inside the knee capsule but to the side of it.

 

So by the inside of my knee, I mean on the side of my knee.  The inner side.

[Connor Davies]

So, is this bad or...