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Started by Sam London, August 6, 2013 · 51 Replies · 2,889 Views
I have read a few posts here regarding the technique and the weight used for the stiff leg windmill. I would like someone to confirm my understanding of its mastery.
I understand that the weight is not as important compared to the technique and ROM and I am therefore considered a master if I can complete the full ROM even though I am only using 3kg. Is this correct?
Sam London said:I have read a few posts here regarding the technique and the weight used for the stiff leg windmill. I would like someone to confirm my understanding of its mastery.
I understand that the weight is not as important compared to the technique and ROM and I am therefore considered a master if I can complete the full ROM even though I am only using 3kg. Is this correct?
correct.
always begin the iM's that are weighed with the following:
1. the weight recommended, if the weight recommended is too high for you currently, you cannot consider mastery until the iM and the PE/SE are completed to Mastery standard.
2. the ROM has to be stable, if you can do it with 3K, you should do it as efficiently as possible it is for you to do so.
3. not a "make it or break it" balance, if you need to start higher, by all means do the iM to the degree that your mobility allows and keep working at it until you mirror the athlete demonstrating.
4. at no time, should there be excessive strain or pain while performing the iM. (like reaching too far just to claim mastery)
doing the above lays the work for other pieces to be stacked onto, the more you milk every progression for what it's worth, the following one will have a better base to start from and will be simpler. not easier, but simpler.
With exercises like this, there is really a minimum weight that you need to stabilize the shoulder. Exceedingly light weights prevent the rotator cuff and other stabilizing muscles from being properly recruited. Giving you a number isn't the best idea, as everyone is different. I will suggest that the 3kg mentioned be something of an absolute lower limit, because that's basically nothing and will not require much of anything to happen inside the shoulder. My suggestion is to explore a range of weights that you have full control over, and choose the one that feels the best. It may not be the heaviest, and that's fine. Choose what feels the best.
This is being used primarily as a mobility element and not as a strength element, so I'm not suggesting that anyone try to max this one out, but it won't hurt to safely explore, meaning slowly and not too many different weights per workout... take a week or two to figure this out, what is the best weight for YOU.
Each of you will have a different ideal weight. Don't just cut and paste what is good for someone else into YOUR routine.. take a few sessions and discover your own ideal weight for this exercise.
I've found that actually going a little heavier on this one (say when compared to Forward Xiaopengs) is a bit better as you have to pay more attention to your shoulder positioning which enhances this stretch.
On a side note, what is full ROM for this exercise? I'm at the point now that my second knuckle touches the floor (though my arms are long).
Not sure what the official word is on full ROM, but personally when I do the exercise my side (oblique area) touches my thigh (quad/adductor area) on my left side and will eventually do so on my right (as the sets go on). Until both sides touch as easily as my left side does though I'm personally not considering this one mastered.
Whether this is actually required I'm not sure, but watching the demo video it looks like Dillon is using a similar ROM.
Officially, I believe the minimum is for your fingertips to touch the ground?
I can touch the ground by my opposite foot (you know, the further one) but I'm pretty sure I can go further. One of the things I noticed re-watching the video is that the model is leaning forward, rather than to the side (maybe) I've been doing this one going down straight sideways, should I bend forward instead?
It's a little of both as I understand the movement. If you were to lean only to the side you would really limit your ROM. If you were to only lean forwards you wouldn't get as good of a stretch on each leg.
Can't remember who it was but somebody said that they teach the movement by having people guide themselves down into position using the back of the hand on the inside of the leg/thigh.
As a follow on question.....is it 5 reps on each side to give a total of 10 ?
I have just started so I apologise if this has been answered in other threads.
Yes, 5 on each side/10 total
Personally, I find leaning a little more to the side focuses the stretch on my lower back, and leaning a little more to the front stretches the hamstring muscle that runs up the inside of my leg. This could just be me though.
I'm finding my oblique is starting to press against my quadricep. When the leg blocks any further bending, and I can't get any more stretch out of it, I will consider it at maximum ROM.
Sam: where do you get the 3k recommendation from? It's not on https://gymnasticbodies.customerhub.net/mn-pe1-im.
But thanks to the others for the good explanations and answers.
Samin
Samin Ishtiaq said:Sam: where do you get the 3k recommendation from? It's not on https://gymnasticbodies.customerhub.net/mn-pe1-im.
As you noted, this is not explicitly defined anywhere but it was a weight that I can confidently do the full ROM movement correctly without comprising form.
Sam London said:As you noted, this is not explicitly defined anywhere but it was a weight that I can confidently do the full ROM movement correctly without comprising form.
Try going a little heavier. If you're not working at a decent weight you're not going to really be engaging the shoulder muscles that you need to. It's a totally different exercises with even 10kg.
Something to note is that people have done windmills with what, 3-400 pounds from what I remember. Admittedly, this was without the rotational element, but it's still food for thought...
This exercise is actually somewhat easier with a heavier weight.
By the way, is touching the ground allowed, or should I just go through my legs like the athlete on the video?
CodyW said:This exercise is actually somewhat easier with a heavier weight.
By the way, is touching the ground allowed, or should I just go through my legs like the athlete on the video?
I touch the ground, by my trailing foot. I can go down further, but if I don't touch the ground I can't tell how deep I'm getting...
- Do not touch the ground.
- Also be sure to observe the athlete's shoulder carefully and note how the shoulder full rotates during both the ascent and descent.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
During the rotation of my shoulder I get a sensation in my shoulder which I believe is a tendon snapping over some kind or structure. On my way down, there is a snap, on my way up, it is reversed.
Using no weight, I do not sense any snapping. Using around 5 kg, it is quite obvious and even hurts a little in my right shoulder.
I tried to "pull" my shoulder in its socket and did sometimes notice what I thought was less snapping. I tried the reverse, reaching far up with my arm, and was able to feel less snapping, that way as well.
Right now I am considering lowering the weight. Still, even after having watched the video several times, I am not sure about how this exercise is to be executed.
Question 1: Do anyone else notice a similar snapping?
Question 2: If so, what did you do about it?
I've had that problem. I found that if I rotate my arm further before I start to lower my shoulder doesn't do that.
i get snapping and still do. using 10lbs makes me snap and not have any issue, when i bump upto 20lbs i get a lot more action in terms of snapping and then get too sore in the anterior delt to do any work on it with the same weight on the subsequent windmill session
beg to wonder why?
KeilaniG said:i get snapping and still do. using 10lbs makes me snap and not have any issue, when i bump upto 20lbs i get a lot more action in terms of snapping and then get too sore in the anterior delt to do any work on it with the same weight on the subsequent windmill session
beg to wonder why?
Is it your anterior deltoid, or your subscapularis tendon that gets impinged? 
Use 12.5 or 15lbs rather than jumping directly from 10 to 20lbs.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
i was a little weary of using anything higher than 10pb until i posted a form check to get your (and everyone elses) opinion on it because 10lb's has been consistently making the same amount of noise but producing no tenderness the next day (also, it doesnt stop at a snapping sound, its more of a crunch) 6lbs tests makes it barely register, so i didnt know it it was due to irresponsible excecution or the more obvious "im using something way too heavy right now" logic.Coach Sommer said:Use 12.5 or 15lbs rather than jumping directly from 10 to 20lbs.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
i'll just wrap my ankle weight around my wrist when i perform these. thanks for the ever watchful eye in the sky there, Coach and Fred 
i...dont know what to say here because when im lowering, im aware that im spiraling downward, i think it might be anterior deltoid? how does this work exactly? could it be me? or a mobility issue that im not addressing? i've never engaged in rotator cuff strenghtening or stretching besides baseball massaging my pecs, delts and posterior delt.FredInChina said:Is it your anterior deltoid, or your subscapularis tendon that gets impinged?