Basic Supplements Every Athlete Should Take

[DannyT]

As said in the thread title, what would you guys class as some basic supplements every athletes should take? I've been trying to read about this on the GB website but I've haven't found much.

 

I'm asking because I train in martial arts, and thought some extra supplementation would probably help my performance, recovery and general well-being.

 

I already take whey protein (should I get concentrate or isolate?), but I'm thinking about getting a multivit, possibly ZMA (or zinc and magnesium seperately), creatine, fish oil, and maybe some d-aspartic acid (or some kind of test booster).

 

Also, any specific brand recommendations would be much appreciated (I'm from the UK if that helps)

 

Thanks guys.

[Blairbob]

Whey concentrate is fine unless you have a problem with lactose or are really looking to cut those few extra carbs taking an isolate/hydrosalate.

 

ZMA works better than Zinc/Mg seperately. I sleep better on ZMA where Zn or Mg seperately don't give me that.

 

Creatine is good as is Beta Alanine or HMB. I'm not really sure it's necessary for GST. Nor the DAA for that matter.

[Joshua Slocum]

Standard reminder: supplements aren't worth a damn if you're not eating right. No amount of vitamins and powders will help you anywhere near as much as simply eating tons of vegetables and cutting out crappy foods.

 

I'm not much of a supplement guy, so I don't really have any advice beyond that. 

[Joshua Naterman]

What on earth makes you think supplements are The Answer? Forgive me for being direct, but no one starts a conversation about supplements every athlete should take, makes their own list, and then asks for additions if this is not their frame of mind.

 

I will give you the best list I can:

 

0) An appointment with your doctor, to make sure you don't have medical conditions, or take medications, that would require you to avoid certain foods.

 

0.5) if step 0 results in a warning from your doctor regarding meds or other condition, an appointment with a Registered Dietician to figure out the best way for you to get your veggies, modify protein consumption (for kidney issues and certain genetic disorders), etc is in order. Those recommendations would supercede anything anyone else, whether it is me or a book by God, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary, tells you. In this area, an RD is there to keep you from accidentally hurting yourself, and knows things that others do not.

 

1) a whole food diet, with plenty of veggies (at least one cup cooked, with about half your veggies being leafy greens) per meal, and proper hydration. If possible, space your meals out to every 2-3 hours.

 

1.5) Eating more calories around the workout

 

2) A steady sleep schedule

 

3) A stress-reduction program. Learning how to reframe the way you appraise everyday situations can make a substantial difference in your stress levels, which will be reflected in better gains and better health. Chief among these is feeling like you are in control of your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Creatine: There are a large, large number of benefits coming from creatine supplementation. It appears that a creatine + beta-alanine combination is the way to go for the absolute best mass and strength gains.

 

5) Caffeine, from coffee or tea. No need for all the crazy stuff, just drink a cup of coffee if you need a boost pre-workout.

 

6) Protein powder: This is not better than protein from whole foods. It is not cheaper either. What it is... is hard to spoil. It doesn't go bad quickly, it won't leak as easily as meat juice, and it is faster to consume. These properties make protein powder a convenience, and one you should take advantage of if there are situations where a shake is appropriate but a whole food snack is not. A business meeting at the office could be an example of this.

 

7) Carb powders. This is similar to 6, and they should be used together if you use them. If you are trying to make a meal replacement shake, it is worth trying to find low GI maltodextrins.

[DannyT]

Whey concentrate is fine unless you have a problem with lactose or are really looking to cut those few extra carbs taking an isolate/hydrosalate.

 

ZMA works better than Zinc/Mg seperately. I sleep better on ZMA where Zn or Mg seperately don't give me that.

 

Creatine is good as is Beta Alanine or HMB. I'm not really sure it's necessary for GST. Nor the DAA for that matter.

Oh okay, I've always heard about how isolate is purer and gets into the muscles faster, and how much of a big deal that is especially post workout. I guess it's not worth the extra money? Thanks for clarifying the point on ZMA, and I'll probably just grab some and experiment with it.

 

Standard reminder: supplements aren't worth a damn if you're not eating right. No amount of vitamins and powders will help you anywhere near as much as simply eating tons of vegetables and cutting out crappy foods.

 

I'm not much of a supplement guy, so I don't really have any advice beyond that. 

That is very true, and I am trying my best to eat as good as possible. Only thing I probably slack on is getting a crap load of veggies, but I am looking to increase my intake of those. Other than that I do eat relatively well, probably not good enough to say I eat great though.

 

 

What on earth makes you think supplements are The Answer? Forgive me for being direct, but no one starts a conversation about supplements every athlete should take, makes their own list, and then asks for additions if this is not their frame of mind.

 

I will give you the best list I can:

 

0) An appointment with your doctor, to make sure you don't have medical conditions, or take medications, that would require you to avoid certain foods.

 

0.5) if step 0 results in a warning from your doctor regarding meds or other condition, an appointment with a Registered Dietician to figure out the best way for you to get your veggies, modify protein consumption (for kidney issues and certain genetic disorders), etc is in order. Those recommendations would supercede anything anyone else, whether it is me or a book by God, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary, tells you. In this area, an RD is there to keep you from accidentally hurting yourself, and knows things that others do not.

 

1) a whole food diet, with plenty of veggies (at least one cup cooked, with about half your veggies being leafy greens) per meal, and proper hydration. If possible, space your meals out to every 2-3 hours.

 

1.5) Eating more calories around the workout

 

2) A steady sleep schedule

 

3) A stress-reduction program. Learning how to reframe the way you appraise everyday situations can make a substantial difference in your stress levels, which will be reflected in better gains and better health. Chief among these is feeling like you are in control of your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Creatine: There are a large, large number of benefits coming from creatine supplementation. It appears that a creatine + beta-alanine combination is the way to go for the absolute best mass and strength gains.

 

5) Caffeine, from coffee or tea. No need for all the crazy stuff, just drink a cup of coffee if you need a boost pre-workout.

 

6) Protein powder: This is not better than protein from whole foods. It is not cheaper either. What it is... is hard to spoil. It doesn't go bad quickly, it won't leak as easily as meat juice, and it is faster to consume. These properties make protein powder a convenience, and one you should take advantage of if there are situations where a shake is appropriate but a whole food snack is not. A business meeting at the office could be an example of this.

 

7) Carb powders. This is similar to 6, and they should be used together if you use them. If you are trying to make a meal replacement shake, it is worth trying to find low GI maltodextrins.

I hope you would comment Josh, don't think you ever seem to disappoint. Sorry I gave off that kind of impression, but I don't think supplements are the answer. I've never been big into supplements, other than whey protein, and have, and always will, thought that good whole foods can greatly improve one's general well-being and performance. I just want to know what people generally recommend to athletes for further improved performance and health.

 

0) I am going to get myself a complete medical assessment asap. I've never actually thought about this, especially at my age (19). But I think this will probably open my eyes a bit about my overall health.

 

1) I have been lurking around the forums and reading your nutritional advice. I'll definitely take your advice on board and have been trying to follow it already.

 

2) I'm decreasing my work hours now to once a week so my sleep schedule will definitely improve tenfold. I'll probably aim for around 10-11 hours per night, and I think the ZMA will probably help with this.

 

3) I'm glad you say this and I have recently been reading a lot of self-development books which all talks about positive thinking etc. This has helped me loads in everyday situations and I am handling stress a lot better now.

 

4) Is creatine useful for GST? Blairbob said above that it may not necessary for gst. If I was to supplement creatine + beta alinine, how would I go about taking the two?

 

5) I thought about supplementing caffeine, but I then thought that if I took it daily I might start becoming dependent on it, as well as being insensitive to caffeine. Should I just take this if I feel I need a boost before workout?

 

6) I think I'll keep taking whey protein as it seems like a convenient way to get protein pre and post workout, and also to up my protein intake.

 

7) Should I take carb powders pre and post workout? I used to put dextrose in my pwo shake, but it seemed like a lot of sugar to consume. I'm currently trying to do a body recomp, and sugar tends to put on bodyfat for me, but that's probably because of the extra calories.

 

Thanks a lot guys I appreciate the help.

[Blairbob]

" I'll probably aim for around 10-11 hours per night, and I think the ZMA will probably help with this. "

 

I thought I might hit 9-10 hours on ZMA but I didn't. 8-9 maybe, but I felt super rested on just that 8.

 

Some studies have shown hydrosalate and isolate to digest faster but it wasn't a HUGE difference. Some have shown concentrate beating out isolate which beat out hydrosalate. Unless it was on the order of 20-50% faster, it would be worth it. It wasn't in some of the studies.

 

If you were a training gymnast, I could see creatine+beta alanine being quite useful. But 1 hour of GST just doesn't have enough volume to warrant IMO. Straight arm strength isn't generally done in enough volume or intensity to warrant it IMO. 

 

Maybe if you were going to do GST+ sprinting or KB/BarBell/metabolic training or even Bodybuilding training there would be the volume to warrant it.

Not really in the old GB WOD's or K70 program or I suppose the new program is there really that much volume.
 

[Joshua Naterman]

" I'll probably aim for around 10-11 hours per night, and I think the ZMA will probably help with this. "

 

I thought I might hit 9-10 hours on ZMA but I didn't. 8-9 maybe, but I felt super rested on just that 8.

 

Some studies have shown hydrosalate and isolate to digest faster but it wasn't a HUGE difference. Some have shown concentrate beating out isolate which beat out hydrosalate. Unless it was on the order of 20-50% faster, it would be worth it. It wasn't in some of the studies.

 

If you were a training gymnast, I could see creatine+beta alanine being quite useful. But 1 hour of GST just doesn't have enough volume to warrant IMO. Straight arm strength isn't generally done in enough volume or intensity to warrant it IMO. 

 

Maybe if you were going to do GST+ sprinting or KB/BarBell/metabolic training or even Bodybuilding training there would be the volume to warrant it.

Not really in the old GB WOD's or K70 program or I suppose the new program is there really that much volume.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with your assessment regarding the creatine. I've never done the creatine + beta-alanine, so I can't comment on any personal experiences, but the creatine will help all athletes. There's so much research supporting that statement that I can't feel even slightly bad about saying it.

 

Will it make a HUGE difference? No, not if the rest of your program is really dialed in, but it does seem to increase the rate at which you get stronger by about 30%, and that is a big deal when you are looking at a multi-year training plan. For even a single year, it's like adding 39 lbs onto your squat instead of 30 lbs. Not huge until you start looking at 10 years of training, and realize that you're talking about 70-90 extra pounds. 

 

That is why, for competitive athletes, there is a use for these things, and I will definitely agree that a competitive gymnast would derive the GREATEST overall benefit (because they need the repeat performance, and the additional repetitions of high quality skills that this means, that the creatine would assist them in performing), but the benefits are there even if you're just doing F1. If you don't think that the Foundation work is high volume strength training, I don't think you've been performing it as prescribed. There's very little rest, and most of each exercise macrocycle is spent in 4-5 sets, which is where creatine shines.

 

In some ways it may work better with GST than with competitive gymnastics, because if all you're doing is GST you can actually meet your caloric intake goals

[Blairbob]

 I'm currently on Creatine+Beta Alanine+HMB+dextrose and I throw in some whey into it and drink it before going to workout. To note, I'm not doing GST atm as I'm Weightlifting. However, until recently, I had been training without any of that besides whey+carbs. Big difference generally (so long as I'm not feeling crushed from squats the day before - hahah).

 

My days of gymnastics are done, I might go back to coaching but I'm moving. I like to play around a bit but without the ability to train on the events and compete (recreationally), I'm not as interested. 

 

 I don't have F1, but through and that I've pieced together an idea of what it is.

 

One of our training group, years back did whey+creatine in his workouts and he did say it helped him. To note, our workouts were roughly 3 hours with 3 events per day and about 1/2 hour of S&C at the end (besides some specific strength likes presses after our WU and back tucks).

 

When I followed GB GST, at most I ever did was whey+carbs though I did throw in some BCAA's for awhile. I think maybe 

 

I actually have wondered if using creatine + any other supplement like Beta Alanine, CM, HMB would be more beneficial either dosed intra workout before our S&C or done preworkout and intra. I just wondered that over the course of 3 hours+, we would burn through it. Then again, I'm still able to hit my strength work pretty hard after Snatching or Clean&Jerking and that's approximately around 90 minutes after stepping into the gym. 

 

It's not I contend that Creatine has benefits but much of GST is not done at really high intensities in GB programming. Before F1 it tended to focus on volumized programming. The old ring strength routines were probably the most intense of WOD's though I do think some of the old WOD's on lower body might actually benefit most from it. "Senders" and sprinting. From what I've gathered, it pretty much is still akin to that. To note, your comment of "4-5" sets comprising F1 exercises.

It'd be great if someone on F1 or F2 or beyond were to test this. But if they were just doing the program which probably means they are wrapped up in 60-90 minutes (if they were to do some skill work or H1 [ no idea ]) I'm not sure they are really going to tax their energy stores.

[Adrien Godet]

There are not really any supplements every athlete should take because that would suppose there's a diet every athlete should follow and that everybody is the same.

 

So you need to experiment what works for you. Even in the studies where supplements are showing significant effects, there is always an important variance between participants.

 

Morning coffees don't do much for my energy and I went from drinking 5-6 espressos a day at work to none overnight, stayed off for 3 months without feeling any difference in energy. The same can't be said of everybody.

 

Yet, the first time I took a pre-workout including Creatine + Beta-Alanine + Caffeine (I received it as a sample in order and didn't expect anything as I have never had marked results from a supplement), I smashed my record hold in one arm lock-off (top of pullup), I went from 15s (subjectively incredibly hard) to 25s (fairly comfortable), though I had been stuck under 15s for several years.
The effects then and later were so incredible I gave a jar to my training partner, who has a similar diet.

But he didn't have any particular improvements.

 

Make your own conclusions

[Joshua Naterman]

Very important point to make, Adrien.

 

Nicely said.

[Philip Chubb]

I've had a lot of success with the basics.

HCl

Fish oil

Vitamin D

Magnesium

Multivitamin

Probiotic

They're not really athlete related, but my students get a lot of bang for their buck with these. It's hard to imagine optimal performance with deficiencies. So I like to get that covered first.

[Fluidity]

Sorry, but I disagree with your assessment regarding the creatine. I've never done the creatine + beta-alanine, so I can't comment on any personal experiences, but the creatine will help all athletes. There's so much research supporting that statement that I can't feel even slightly bad about saying it.

 

Will it make a HUGE difference? No, not if the rest of your program is really dialed in, but it does seem to increase the rate at which you get stronger by about 30%, and that is a big deal when you are looking at a multi-year training plan. For even a single year, it's like adding 39 lbs onto your squat instead of 30 lbs. Not huge until you start looking at 10 years of training, and realize that you're talking about 70-90 extra pounds. 

 

That is why, for competitive athletes, there is a use for these things, and I will definitely agree that a competitive gymnast would derive the GREATEST overall benefit (because they need the repeat performance, and the additional repetitions of high quality skills that this means, that the creatine would assist them in performing), but the benefits are there even if you're just doing F1. If you don't think that the Foundation work is high volume strength training, I don't think you've been performing it as prescribed. There's very little rest, and most of each exercise macrocycle is spent in 4-5 sets, which is where creatine shines.

 

In some ways it may work better with GST than with competitive gymnastics, because if all you're doing is GST you can actually meet your caloric intake goals

Josh when it comes to ZMA, what do you think of this product and the supplements added to it for sleep?

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/formutech-nutrition/rem-8-0-40-servings.html

It does have zinc and magnesium but it also has a bunch of other ingedients to aid a restful sleep. Does it seem like something worth getting if you have really bad sleep patterns and rarely ever get a restful sleep?

[Blairbob]

 It can work well. I ran out over a month ago. I can still sleep ( I tried some herbal stuff with melatonin ) but I slept like the dead on ZMA. And thus felt more awesome.

[Jon Douglas]

 It can work well. I ran out over a month ago. I can still sleep ( I tried some herbal stuff with melatonin ) but I slept like the dead on ZMA. And thus felt more awesome.

I've also had very good experiences with ZMA.

[Joshua Naterman]

ZMA efficacy seems to depend primarily on your zinc and magnesium status, unsurprisingly. There's little benefit from the zinc aspartate if you have good zinc status, and same goes for the magnesium aspartate. 

 

If you're low on magnesium, you can buy 1 dollar magnesium laxative drinks and just have a teaspoon or tablespoon full once or twice a day. The label will tell you how much is in the bottle, and from there you can work backwards.

 

1 ounce is 2 tablespoons.

1 tablespoon is 3 teaspoons. 

BAM!

 

Magnesium works as a laxative in high doses, so when you drink half or whole bottles of the pre-made laxative drinks they draw tons of water into your gut and you get the loosey goosey squirts. 

 

When it's in small doses, it's just a magnesium supplement. Use small doses, don't make a mess :/