Aging and GST

[Eric Kamhi]

I've been thinking about something recently and thought I'd ask the experts here.

 

I read Cole Dano's old post but what I was wondering was a little more specific.

 

Is Gymnastic Based Strength Training a healthy long term exercise method as we get older?  My concerns were mainly with the amount of stress we put on joints and ligaments and the body's ability to heal, improve these tissues.  

 

Do we become more prone to injury as we are aging (in our middle ages and beyond), are there certain adjustments to make and steps to take back in order to better listen to our changing body?

 

I know there are fringe examples, and as someone who loves to exercise I think I will be doing exercise for as long as I will be physically able to, but when does working on X isometric or Y kinetic become more stressful than beneficial? 

 

[Kevin Conley]

You will likely only know when you try and get injured over and over again. If, even under really conservative training protocols, you continuously are injured or it takes too long to heal then it is likely too stressful.

 

I do not know myself, but this is what I would envision.

[Kate Abernethy]

Hi Eric - my answers, rather obvious but a starting point. I'm not an expert but am older and have been 'sporty' for a while (from 7 to 43 yrs of age).

I've been thinking about something recently and thought I'd ask the experts here.

 

I read Cole Dano's old post but what I was wondering was a little more specific.

 

Is Gymnastic Based Strength Training a healthy long term exercise method as we get older?  My concerns were mainly with the amount of stress we put on joints and ligaments and the body's ability to heal, improve these tissues.  

 

Yes, exercise is good for health and using the progressive gymnastic foundation exercises is a safe way to proceed.

 

Do we become more prone to injury as we are aging (in our middle ages and beyond),

 

Yes, if we behave like the youngsters we are not/ were.

 

are there certain adjustments to make and steps to take back in order to better listen to our changing body?

 

Yes, ease into new movements and listen to what the body says afterwards.

 

I know there are fringe examples, and as someone who loves to exercise I think I will be doing exercise for as long as I will be physically able to, but when does working on X isometric or Y kinetic become more stressful than beneficial?

 

We'll find out by doing it and being the guinea pigs for future generations   

 

 

[Larry Roseman]

I've been thinking about something recently and thought I'd ask the experts here.

 

I read Cole Dano's old post but what I was wondering was a little more specific.

 

Is Gymnastic Based Strength Training a healthy long term exercise method as we get older?  My concerns were mainly with the amount of stress we put on joints and ligaments and the body's ability to heal, improve these tissues.  

 

Do we become more prone to injury as we are aging (in our middle ages and beyond), are there certain adjustments to make and steps to take back in order to better listen to our changing body?

 

I know there are fringe examples, and as someone who loves to exercise I think I will be doing exercise for as long as I will be physically able to, but when does working on X isometric or Y kinetic become more stressful than beneficial? 

Hi Eric,

 

Most of the medical "rules about aging" were written decades ago looking at sendentary populations. When exercise physiologists look at active and highly active older populations, they see that we are not degrading as rapidly as expected. And our physcial performance can be damn impressive as well.  This is seen in both endurance and strength athletes.  Injuries can occur however they can occur in daily life without training, twisting an ankle, fallling and bruising a bone, getting out of bed, whatever. Training GST will prevent a lot more injuries than it causes in my opinion, due to increased strength, flexiblity and agility.

 

I don't think it involves an inordinate amount of stress on joints and ligaments at early levels, and  we have control over the duration and the amount of stress applied. Over time the joints and tissues adapt to handling it and levels can increase. I've seen this in myself over several years. I'm into my fifth decade but my recovery has improved and there is very little that gets me workout-sore or injured. But I don't do anything outside of my comfort zone for very long.

 

Most of the times I've been injured have actually been in group settings when there was more of a competitive urge in play. That happened by overdoing it at a gymastics club I went to. However with GST at home it's just the rings (or other device) and yourself, and it's easier to listen to your body and common sense without seeking to compete and impress.

 

However you may nevertheless impress. A funny story: a few days ago I was at a non-gymnastic club that had rings. They were doing a fitness camp for kids and their parents at the time. I was on the rings doing very basic stuff.  Not even rated skills, and not even with great form, but when I dropped down, I was greeted by applause from several of the guys hanging around!  I mumbled something about it being very basic stuff, but one guy said, "I can't do it".  In any event, I was shocked I was applauded. But later it made me appreciate how far I have come in a few years, and to me that's worth more than a 10.0 from the judges.  Sometimes we need others to help us appreciate our accomplishments and capabilities, as we often see what we aren't more than what we are.

 

You do need to start slowly and build a base.  From there take each step gradually. Follow your heart and listen to your head. When it is time to take the next step you will do so. The opportunity will appear in front of you.

 

Best Regards,

FIN

[Mats Trane]

I'm very close to 50 (2weeks to go). In my mind I think I'm still 25. I try to get to the skateboardpark at least once a week and the rest of the days (5) I try to do GST. What I have noticed is when I get a small injury it takes alot longer to heal for me. This is realy frustrating for me because I cant train fully. It's like I almost get depressed. I've also noticed that I dont sleep like I used to. I have a tendency to wake up a couple of times at night. As we get older we sleep less ( at least it goes for me). During sleep is when our bodies are healing.

Look at teenagers, they sleep as they were dead it's no wonder they heal up faster.

As for GST training I think it's totally safe if it's done the right way. If we follow F1-F2, the risk of getting injured is very small. I've noticed weak links in my body going through F1-F2. When I think back it's these weak links that have caused my injuries.

[pogo69]

What I have noticed is when I get a small injury it takes alot longer to heal for me. This is realy frustrating for me because I cant train fully. It's like I almost get depressed. I've also noticed that I dont sleep like I used to. I have a tendency to wake up a couple of times at night. As we get older we sleep less ( at least it goes for me). During sleep is when our bodies are healing.

That matches my experience also, Mats (currently 43).  Injuries take longer to heal, sleep is invariably harder to come by and I need to pay a LOT more attention to recovery than I once did - more rest in particular.  I'm currently cramming F1+H1+Running in on Mon/Wed/Fri as well as a long run on Sundays - as I find the days off in between necessary to recharge myself and stay fresh and motivated.

 

But we're not all built the same, so it could well be different for others of similar "vintage" 

If we follow F1-F2, the risk of getting injured is very small. I've noticed weak links in my body going through F1-F2. When I think back it's these weak links that have caused my injuries.

Exactly what I have experienced as well.  Each of my injuries over the last 12 months have been attributable to a weakness and/or imbalance.  In addition to specific rehab/prehab, I have found F1+H1 not only to have provided a safe and gradual progression for strength development, but also to significantly contribute to the rehabilitation of the injuries (none of which were caused by GST)

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

 

(...)  Each of my injuries over the last 12 months have been attributable to a weakness and/or imbalance.

 

hehehe... each of mine are directly and irrevocably attributable to a serious dysfunction of my brain cell (singular) that did not seem to age at the same pace as my body!

[pogo69]

Same here regarding my current shoulder injury.  Playing rugby with my boys - while I'm relatively athletic, it seems I don't "bounce" quite like I used to

[Kate Abernethy]

Just to give you youngsters a real-life example of how ageing catches you out:

 

This weekend I sat out early morning in a cold breeze with the chickens to keep the crows away from their feed, then went and had a bath and surfed the internet on my phone so I had my neck bent forward whilst lying to see the screen. Next thing I know I can't extend my neck without pain and have to rest the entire day and have another hot bath (completely flat this time) in the evening.

 

Moral for older people: Keep flexible, avoid draughts, and don't put yourself in a position of strain for long periods.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Just to give you youngsters a real-life example of how ageing catches you out (...)

 

Like about zero chances they'll listen...

Best thing is to give'em something to want when they see you movin' better than they... 

 

Okay, time for my soup!

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

The skin is for a large part made of collagen... just like tendons, ligaments, etc...

 

It is very easy to see the effects of age on the skin:

 

 

And to imagine the effects it also has on tendons, etc...

We can delude ourselves all day long, but age is certainly not a factor to ignore when deciding intensity and frequency of our training.

[Mikkel Ravn]

Just to give you youngsters a real-life example of how ageing catches you out:

 

This weekend I sat out early morning in a cold breeze with the chickens to keep the crows away from their feed, then went and had a bath and surfed the internet on my phone so I had my neck bent forward whilst lying to see the screen. Next thing I know I can't extend my neck without pain and have to rest the entire day and have another hot bath (completely flat this time) in the evening.

 

Moral for older people: Keep flexible, avoid draughts, and don't put yourself in a position of strain for long periods.

If it's any consolation, this happened to me when I was six or seven. Playing on a hill top during a storm ( I know), next morning my parents had me hospitalised due to a completely frozen neck. They thought I had meningitis, poor silly parents

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

I've been thinking about something recently and thought I'd ask the experts here.

 

I read Cole Dano's old post but what I was wondering was a little more specific.

 

Is Gymnastic Based Strength Training a healthy long term exercise method as we get older?  My concerns were mainly with the amount of stress we put on joints and ligaments and the body's ability to heal, improve these tissues.  

 

Do we become more prone to injury as we are aging (in our middle ages and beyond), are there certain adjustments to make and steps to take back in order to better listen to our changing body?

 

I know there are fringe examples, and as someone who loves to exercise I think I will be doing exercise for as long as I will be physically able to, but when does working on X isometric or Y kinetic become more stressful than beneficial? 

 

 

When I read your post I thought: “Here we go again. Another midlife crisis.†Then I looked up your profile and noticed you are from 1977. Jeezz man, I am about twice your age. You are stealing my thunder. Those types of questions are mine to ask, not yours. I can see the humor of it all, though, so thank you for making my day.    Be that as it may, also for the benefit of the other self professed old geezers that gave you some pretty good feedback, here is my take.

In my experience, whether I should persist with GST (after starting at the age of 69) turned out to be more of a social issue than a physical one. In the beginning my kids and friends were clearly thinking that I was a bit of an idiot to want to do Gymnastic Strength Training™ “at my ageâ€. They clearly thought that I should “take a step back†and make “certain adjustments† and change my focus to, for example, playing golf. For all what I know, they were right, and I would have been a much better socially adapted and, therefore, happier person if I had done so ... at that time. 

Now, three years later, their attitudes have changed. My friends, of course, look at me and then at themselves and wonder: †What if ..... “, and then decide:†Nah, it is too late now ...â€. My kids proudly show their friends my youtube videos: †That is my dad...â€.  It turns out, that I was so determined to show them wrong, that I did not have much time to worry about the trade offs between potential injuries and unknown benefits of GST training at my age, the way you seem to want to make now at your age.   

You ask about listening to your body; by all means, learn to do, and don’t forget to learn to gauge your mental and emotional state. Making certain adjustments? All the time, but not necessarily to lessen the load. Take steps back? Sometimes back, more often forward so the net result is progress (which in my case includes maintaining the status quo). You seem to want to do a generalized cost-benefit analysis of GST. That is not how it works. What you experience as a stressful exercise is pretty subjective and changeable; and, yes, if you are not in tune with your body and mind, then you may get injured. 

The amazing thing (about us human beings) is that we can adapt to experience the stress and (initial) discomfort of a GST exercise as something we (after a while) can not do without. I personally feel quite miserable without the (pleasant) feeling of some muscle tightness and fatigue that comes from my GST training. It makes me sleep a lot better. Yes, that is why I do GST: it makes me sleep better. B)

[Mats Trane]

 

 It turns out, that I was so determined to show them wrong,

 

Love it!

[Eric Kamhi]

 

When I read your post I thought: “Here we go again. Another midlife crisis.†Then I looked up your profile and noticed you are from 1977. Jeezz man, I am about twice your age. You are stealing my thunder. Those types of questions are mine to ask, not yours. I can see the humor of it all, though, so thank you for making my day.    Be that as it may, also for the benefit of the other self professed old geezers that gave you some pretty good feedback, here is my take.

 

Hi FritsMB, loved your post, thank you for your feedback.  Stories like yours inspire me (would be hard to find someone they don't inspire).  But to clarify, not all the questions I ask are for my own personal application. At least not immediately (in this case ).  I genuinely want to hear your personal stories and thoughts.  You are at a point in life which younger people here are headed to and I'd like to hear your stories and thoughts (as well as some scientific discussion if it happens to emerge) on the subject.

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

....I genuinely want to hear your personal stories and thoughts.  You are at a point in life which younger people here are headed to and I'd like to hear your stories and thoughts .... .

 

 

 

It is really too bad that we can’t get together in the local pub at the end of the day. Especially, now that I seem to have an open invitation to endlessly wax poetic along the lines of â€Now, when I was younger ....â€, or “This reminds me of that time when ....â€. Here, at home it is only the dog who has not tired yet of my stories (he knows there is always a treat for him when I finally stop talking). So, let me ask you again. Are you sure?? Really, really sure??

[Keilani Gutierrez]

 

It is really too bad that we can’t get together in the local pub at the end of the day. Especially, now that I seem to have an open invitation to endlessly wax poetic along the lines of â€Now, when I was younger ....â€, or “This reminds me of that time when ....â€. Here, at home it is only the dog who has not tired yet of my stories (he knows there is always a treat for him when I finally stop talking). So, let me ask you again. Are you sure?? Really, really sure??

 

I didn't grow up to know either of my grandparents, so that would definitely be something i'd look forward to

[Deins Drengers]

Guys I don't want to get old !!

 

Did the scientists discover the fountain of youth yet?

[Keilani Gutierrez]

aging is inevitable, but being youthful is an attitude

 

edit: i mean, look at Fred

 

post edit, edit: seriously.

[Jon Douglas]

aging is inevitable, but being youthful is an attitude

 

edit: i mean, look at Fred

 

post edit, edit: seriously.

You have to survive your 20's to age too much K

[Alessandro Mainente]

my father will turn 60 this year and he train for strength. he is able to do 41 seconds of support hold on the rings. something that a big part of normal people dream during the night...

[Curt Ferson]

The research had been done. Strength training improves the condtiion of muscles, bone density and tendon stiffness of older adults. Don't forget about the mental and emotional aspects. GST is the perfect tonic for getting older because of the unique combination of mobility, strength, and balance. Gains and recovery will slow, no doubt, but just maintaining a decent level of ability should serve people very, very well. I'd say-get it while you can, and struggle to keep it. Of course, you may need to find some younger friends.