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alihanyildirim

Gaining Weight Whilst Training Static Holds

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alihanyildirim

Hi GB forum members!

 

I have a few questions which I would really appreciate some answers to as they have been on my mind for quite a while.

 

I have been training gymnastics for almost 1 year now and when I started out I was only into tumbling but have now shifted my focus more onto the Still Rings and Strength Training. I can hold both half front levers and back levers and a handstand on the wall for close to a minute. My muscle up is a work in progress and my ring l-sit is around 20seconds.

 

I wanted to know if trying to put on muscle mass while trying to progress in static holds such as the Front Lever/Back Lever, Planche, Side Lever, Manna and Handstands will slow my progress down as gaining weight means that my body has to work harder to hold a position whereas if I was maintaining my weight would it be easier?

 

I am 6 feet tall and weigh 81kg (178lbs). So my question again is, is gaining mass and trying to progress in static holds doable or would it be better for me cut my weight down and just maintain whilst trying to gain more strength?

 

Thanks!

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Joshua Slocum

If you gain functional mass, it should help rather than hurt. Bigger muscles can get stronger than smaller muscles.

 

If the mass you gain is in the legs, however, that's just going to be dead weight as far as the holds are concerned. 

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Keilani Gutierrez

If you gain functional mass, it should help rather than hurt. Bigger muscles can get stronger than smaller muscles.

 

If the mass you gain is in the legs, however, that's just going to be dead weight as far as the holds are concerned. 

the first sentence made me do a face somewhat like this:  :lol: 

the second one though: :huh: ... :facepalm:

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Daniel Burnham

the first sentence made me do a face somewhat like this:  :lol: 

the second one though: :huh: ... :facepalm:

Why that reaction?  Everything he said is true.

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Keilani Gutierrez

Why that reaction?  Everything he said is true.

I agree that it is true :) I just facepalmed because where I have also made substantial gains are in both my legs. (horse stance training has kept progressing)

 

though i suspect when it comes to the HLL, I will feel this price.

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Larry Roseman

However heavier legs can help you get stronger and potentially larger above, like wearing ankle weights.

 

It's harder to start as a beginner with heavy legs than develop them as you go along.

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Travis Widmann

Question is, is it possible to reduce leg mass while training GST?

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Christoph Pahl

By static training you improve muscular coordination (inter- + intra I suppose). You will not gain weight, no bodybuilder trains statics!

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James De Greeuw

So am I correct to assume that when the muscle gain in the upper body is triggered by gymnastic (sport) specific stimuli, it will more likely help you rather than hinder your progression on GST excercises, until you reach a certain point where you have accumulated so much muscle that the strength to weight ratio is being imbalanced by your "excessive" muscle ?

If you'd be on a clean diet with a caloric surplus and just doing GST training, most/all the muscle gained would benefit the training, right ? Should then all beginning GST atheletes that would be underweight strive for big surpluses in their diet or should they accumulate small amounts of muscle over the years, just like most gymnasts do ?

Not saying gaining muscle is easy, but I'm just wondering about what role muscle gaining plays in GST and whether it should be a focus.

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Joshua Naterman

So am I correct to assume that when the muscle gain in the upper body is triggered by gymnastic (sport) specific stimuli, it will more likely help you rather than hinder your progression on GST excercises, until you reach a certain point where you have accumulated so much muscle that the strength to weight ratio is being imbalanced by your "excessive" muscle ?

If you'd be on a clean diet with a caloric surplus and just doing GST training, most/all the muscle gained would benefit the training, right ? Should then all beginning GST atheletes that would be underweight strive for big surpluses in their diet or should they accumulate small amounts of muscle over the years, just like most gymnasts do ?

Not saying gaining muscle is easy, but I'm just wondering about what role muscle gaining plays in GST and whether it should be a focus.

Your focus should be in two places:

 

#1: Quality of movement.

 

If you are moving correctly, you are using your muscles in the correct proportions. As you use muscles, you send signals to the muscle cells. These signals say "Make me bigger and stronger!" Bad form is bad movement, and muscles are what cause movement, so if your form is bad then you are literally not using your muscles the right way for that movement. You will be sending unbalanced signals to the body, and will not get the muscle growth that you want and need. You may get growth, but it will not be in the correct places, or to the correct proportions, for enhancing your strength. Therefore, the rule for getting stronger is to focus on perfect form.

 

#2: A fairly clean, balanced diet.

 

Your focus on perfect form will send all the right signals, but if you don't give your body the quality raw materials it needs to build more muscle, you will not grow. If you do not grow, you will be limited in your ability to get stronger. Bigger muscles are stronger muscles, so feeding your body good whole foods, getting 25-30g of protein (along with carbs, veggies, and some fats to absorb vitamins from the veggies) with each meal, and eating frequently throughout the day will enhance your ability to grow.

 

Remember: #1 is the first item for a reason! If you don't use perfect form, it doesn't matter what else you do, because you will eventually run into a wall that requires you to start all the way over at the beginning.

 

Be patient, follow F1-4 with diligence, and eat well.

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dnj23

So am I correct to assume that when the muscle gain in the upper body is triggered by gymnastic (sport) specific stimuli, it will more likely help you rather than hinder your progression on GST excercises, until you reach a certain point where you have accumulated so much muscle that the strength to weight ratio is being imbalanced by your "excessive" muscle ?

 

It will probably only help you. If you are a typical, natural trainee you aren't going to have such an issue. If it were only so easy to have such problems! It is way more probable to have issues with excess fat and water.

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Joshua Naterman

It will probably only help you. If you are a typical, natural trainee you aren't going to have such an issue. If it were only so easy to have such problems! It is way more probable to have issues with excess fat and water.

It is only difficult because it is a pain in the butt to eat enough calories with clean foods. However, if you do so you'll have excellent results. I have yet to see this fail.

 

It is important for everyone to remember this next bit, both for yourselves and for the people you talk to about eating in the future:

 

Keep in mind that if your body has been particularly abused by years of under-eating or other serious nutritional mis-management that it may take you several months before your body starts changing, but after that starts it will continue. The time gap between adoption of good habits and results starting to show up is because your body's hormonal profile shifts very slowly, but it is a steady shift.

 

An analogy might be that you are digging a well, and that you haven't struck the water table yet... the problem isn't that there is no water, the problem is that you haven't gotten that well deep enough to reach the water. Once you get there, the water will keep on coming, but  between that first shovel full of dirt and that nice well of water is a time of blind faith... a time when your consistent work is not showing the result you are aiming for even though you are doing the right things. You will need to stick to your plan, and keep on digging (eating correctly), because every shovel full of dirt brings you closer to the moment that it all starts paying off in a big way.

 

 

 

 

Most of us will see results pretty quickly, within two weeks, but there can be times when it takes several months.

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Keilani Gutierrez

It is only difficult because it is a pain in the butt to eat enough calories with clean foods. However, if you do so you'll have excellent results. I have yet to see this fail.

 

It is important for everyone to remember this next bit, both for yourselves and for the people you talk to about eating in the future:

 

Keep in mind that if your body has been particularly abused by years of under-eating or other serious nutritional mis-management that it may take you several months before your body starts changing, but after that starts it will continue. The time gap between adoption of good habits and results starting to show up is because your body's hormonal profile shifts very slowly, but it is a steady shift.

 

An analogy might be that you are digging a well, and that you haven't struck the water table yet... the problem isn't that there is no water, the problem is that you haven't gotten that well deep enough to reach the water. Once you get there, the water will keep on coming, but  between that first shovel full of dirt and that nice well of water is a time of blind faith... a time when your consistent work is not showing the result you are aiming for even though you are doing the right things. You will need to stick to your plan, and keep on digging (eating correctly), because every shovel full of dirt brings you closer to the moment that it all starts paying off in a big way.

 

 

 

 

Most of us will see results pretty quickly, within two weeks, but there can be times when it takes several months.

I'm one of those who felt results pretty quickly,  but that was out of my mistake of blindly walking towards going low carb since i had cut out certain things from my diet, like rice and didn't eat carb rich foods, which i now enjoy. my mind feels sharper, my body looks like i just worked out earlier in the morning (even on rest days), muscles have more definition, i recover faster from week to week and i'll repeat that what mostly blew me away was my memory recall. I had totally been oblivious to how slow my brain felt after a while. kind of like the analogy of taking a frog and putting in a pan with room temperature water and slowly bringing up the water to a boil to kill it. 

 

now i enjoy less memory gaps, small details like where do i go to next after this appointment without having to look at my to-do list, my rep schemes(since they're all over the place right now) 

 

what I need to focus on, is how Josh said, to keep going and keep learning how to get my carbs from clean sources and not overly-abuse certain sources for palate and food psychological impacts sake. xD It's nice to allow yourself a cheat food and to use it strategically to emotionally boost you to keep going until you just mentally are set in a pattern that can't be broken by emotion. 

 

I gained around 10-12lbs since starting GST and F1 + H1 and i'm really curious as to how much more my body is going to be changing for the better. focusing on perfect form has clearly distributed this small gain in weight in a bunch of places and i am almost impervious as to where the gains have been but I do feel my forearms are meatier, so is my shoulder, my legs and my hip function(which are three big reasons for me training the way you guys have taught me)

 

I have a feeling i'm gonna have a lot of fun and learn a lot at the dinner table after the seminar with you guys on Sep :P 

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James De Greeuw

Thanks for the insights everyone.
More strength follows bigger muscles, then is it true every athlete would benefit from an increase in muscle mass, only if that muscle mass has been induced by perfect form (and diet) causing the growth to occur in the right places? Does that mean there isn't such a thing as excessive mucle mass, well, if everyone would train with perfect form (on the exercises that someone wants to train for).

Perhaps off-topic, but as for supplements that "accelerate" muscle growth;
Performance supplements, e.g. beta-alanine/creatine, will intensify or lengthen the time under tension and so the muscles are exposed longer to the signals that you send to them by using correct form when doing GST. Therefore muscle growth occurs and strength increases. 

If I'd like to fit them somewhere in the picture; they are only to be used if a person adheres to #1 Quality of movement, #2 A fairly clean and balanced diet, and when the body's hormonal profile has adapted to these 2 focuses after a few weeks/months, right ?
Because they obviously do not substitute for digging! 

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dnj23

It is only difficult because it is a pain in the butt to eat enough calories with clean foods. However, if you do so you'll have excellent results. I have yet to see this fail.

 

It is important for everyone to remember this next bit, both for yourselves and for the people you talk to about eating in the future:

 

Keep in mind that if your body has been particularly abused by years of under-eating or other serious nutritional mis-management that it may take you several months before your body starts changing, but after that starts it will continue. The time gap between adoption of good habits and results starting to show up is because your body's hormonal profile shifts very slowly, but it is a steady shift.

 

An analogy might be that you are digging a well, and that you haven't struck the water table yet... the problem isn't that there is no water, the problem is that you haven't gotten that well deep enough to reach the water. Once you get there, the water will keep on coming, but  between that first shovel full of dirt and that nice well of water is a time of blind faith... a time when your consistent work is not showing the result you are aiming for even though you are doing the right things. You will need to stick to your plan, and keep on digging (eating correctly), because every shovel full of dirt brings you closer to the moment that it all starts paying off in a big way.

 

 

 

 

Most of us will see results pretty quickly, within two weeks, but there can be times when it takes several months.

You overemphasize the diet and dismiss the genetic response. Everybody is different though, and fall victim to personal bias with their training experience. If you could take yourself out of your body and become a hardgainer you would then understand. I just had a bodybuilder trying to tell me with a straight face that the reason most people don't have 20" arms is because they lack the will. You can have the perfect diet, but if you don't have the genes for much hypertrophy it won't happen.

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Guest SuperBru

I agree that it is true :) I just facepalmed because where I have also made substantial gains are in both my legs. (horse stance training has kept progressing)

 

though i suspect when it comes to the HLL, I will feel this price.

Oh kak. Most of my Aesthetic gains have been in my legs too. 

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Guest SuperBru

Your focus should be in two places:

 

#1: Quality of movement.

 

If you are moving correctly, you are using your muscles in the correct proportions. As you use muscles, you send signals to the muscle cells. These signals say "Make me bigger and stronger!" Bad form is bad movement, and muscles are what cause movement, so if your form is bad then you are literally not using your muscles the right way for that movement. You will be sending unbalanced signals to the body, and will not get the muscle growth that you want and need. You may get growth, but it will not be in the correct places, or to the correct proportions, for enhancing your strength. Therefore, the rule for getting stronger is to focus on perfect form.

 

#2: A fairly clean, balanced diet.

 

Your focus on perfect form will send all the right signals, but if you don't give your body the quality raw materials it needs to build more muscle, you will not grow. If you do not grow, you will be limited in your ability to get stronger. Bigger muscles are stronger muscles, so feeding your body good whole foods, getting 25-30g of protein (along with carbs, veggies, and some fats to absorb vitamins from the veggies) with each meal, and eating frequently throughout the day will enhance your ability to grow.

 

Remember: #1 is the first item for a reason! If you don't use perfect form, it doesn't matter what else you do, because you will eventually run into a wall that requires you to start all the way over at the beginning.

 

Be patient, follow F1-4 with diligence, and eat well.

Point of interest how long have you been training in general?

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