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Arthur Wong

Weighted pull ups vs OAP/assisted OAP

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Arthur Wong

How different is the muscle recruitment/strength gain in a weighted pull up vs assisted OAP for the same reps?

 

Since that probably didn't make much sense, if I can do 45lb weighted pull ups for 7 reps, and do assisted (I know "assisted" greatly varies) OAPs to where I can only manage 7 reps similar to my weighted max, will it be somewhat the same in terms of strength gain the benefits from weighted? I understand it is a unilateral movement which would change things.

 

I can do 20 pull ups +/-  a few depending on the day and I was looking to switch my training over to be more strength focused in the 3-5 rep range. The problem is I don't have weights or access to a gym to do weighted pull ups so I wanted to "replace" them with assisted OAP. 

 

Any thoughts?

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Mats Trane

Try superslow assited OAP. I'm talking 20-30 seconds for one rep. Also make sure to pause at the bottom and top of the rep. These superslow reps will make you work every single fiber of your muscles and you will soon find out where your weak link of your pullup is.

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Mikkel Ravn

...agree with Mats, but don't jump straight into heavy one arm work such as one arm negatives, if you are not used to working weighted pullups. That sudden jump in intensity may be more than your elbows can take, and may result in golfer's elbow (tendonitis), which is not nice.

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mrpraktic
 That sudden jump in intensity may be more than your elbows can take

 

I have done that  :facepalm: .  Because of pain in my elbow I give up. I was young and stupid back than  :blink: I plan to start training again soon. My question is how to know for sure that you are ready for OAP negative work?

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Mikkel Ravn

Better ask Mats, he's got the OAP, I think.

Otherwise, It's probably a good idea to safely work up to pullups + ~60% of bodyweight. Either that, or start out slowly with assisted OAPs.

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PatrickMeniru

I have done that  :facepalm: .  Because of pain in my elbow I give up. I was young and stupid back than  :blink: I plan to start training again soon. My question is how to know for sure that you are ready for OAP negative work?

My advice is not to start on single arm work (negatives or isometrics) until you can do a weighted chin with around 2/3 bodyweight and definitely not before you can do half your bodyweight for a few doubles with good form.  As to knowing if you're ready or not, just listen to your body, if you do some top holds and negatives and your elbow hurts at the time or the next day, then you know you went too fast and you need to scale back your training.  Also, if you do one nice slow negative, but the next one is quite fast due to fatigue, stop.  Only do reps where you have full control.

As a disclaimer, I don't actually have a OAC, but I'm working towards one.  I got to the point last summer of being able to do negatives with isometric pauses at the top, middle and bottom of the movement, but ended up hurting my elbow and it has taken me a year to get back to a similar strength level injury free.

Good luck with your training!

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Mikkel Ravn

The sneaky, devious part of OAP training is, and I'm speaking from experience, that once you feel a slight pain near the medial epicondyle, it is most likely too late to scale back the training - tendonitis has evolved, and won't go away until you take complete rest for a number of weeks or months. Personally, I'd love to get the OAP, and worked hard on it in the past, but I kept getting golfer's elbow, so it may just be a bad goal to set for myself.

I may, or may not, take the OAP up again, after finishing the foundation series. That should be a good starting point for taking things to the next level. I'll have to be smarter about it, that's for sure.

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Samuli Jyrkinen

I would definitely do OAP-progressions. But remember to use progressive overload here where you of course start from easy variations and progressively move towards harder progressions, and also vary the methods. For example, If you entirely rely on finger assisted OAPs, your reps will increase but it might be mostly due to the finger strengthening. Archer pull-ups and (weighted) negatives are a good match for me personally. Moreover, assisted OAPs will eventually give you a real OAP, which won't necessarily happen with weighted chins.

 

When I first started, I did only weighted chins until I got chins to +30 kg or so. Then I moved to my own apartment and because the bar couldn't handle too much external weight, I focused on OAP-progressions. After one year I returned back to my parents' house and noticed that I managed to do weighted ring pull-ups with +50 kg external weight and could almost finish a rep with +60 kg. 

 

If I could start all over again, I would focus completely on OAP-progressions and other harder chin-up variations such as L-pull-ups, wide, bulgarian etc. With bodyweight exercises the external weight is one way to add progressive overload but finding harder variations will provide much better results, imo.

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Coach Sommer

Mastering rope climbs without legs is an absolute pre-requisite prior to beginning any form of OAC training.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Mats Trane

Mastering rope climbs without legs is an absolute pre-requisite prior to beginning any form of OAC training.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Agree to 100%. I had ropeclimbes with no legs before I even started OAC training. 

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Parth Rajguru

I like to use more complex training methods over simply manipulating intensity, especially if your goal is a complex movement such as the one arm chin up. Rope climbs, numerous chin up variations, row variations, structural balance training, and other tools will be more helpful than only relying on weighted chin ups to reach the one arm chin up.

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Daniel Burnham

While I don't agree that the OAC/OAP is really that complex, I do agree that weighted are not the best method.  I tried using assisted for a while to develop the OAC and developed tendonitis.  I then quit and went to rope climbs and got it by accident though I find it easier on the rope than the bar.  The other type work that raja recommends using is outlined in the foundation series.

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