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Jeff Walker

Muscle Up Transition

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Jeff Walker

Are you folding your wrists over the rings? As in bending at the wrist.

Yes But I am grabbing the ring at about 7 oclocl and then folding my wrists

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Jeff Walker

Those are all fine, however, you DON'T want to grab at 10 like he's doing. It basically makes it way harder to get your shoulders over your hands to get into a support.

Am I grabbing that high?  I didnt even realize.  

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Jeff Walker

 

Hey JWalker497. I just read your “MU with cross trainers thread†and noticed that (some) people are getting somewhat aggravated by your (many??) how-do-I-go-about-getting-my-MU postings. That happens; even on this forum. My advise: just keep trying man. You are almost there (as you said yourself). In fact your transition is pretty much there but you fail to move over that last small hump into your dip. My suggestion is that you also focus more on getting really low in your ring dips. In the dips you show in your clip you start to transition into a hang way too early  (i.e. hands about a foot above shoulders instead of two or three inches). Go slowly down in your ring dips until your hands are as close under your shoulders as possible with under arms horizontal. In fact, the same position of your  hands and underarms (shown in your clip) when you get up into the transition from a FG pull up. Practice pushing out from that position to, say, a quarter dip and back.  If you find that cross trainers help you to get a better feel of your transition, by all means use them (I have no experience with them). Have fun training. Don’t forget to show us when you get your first MU.

 

 

 

Hey JWalker497. I just read your “MU with cross trainers thread†and noticed that (some) people are getting somewhat aggravated by your (many??) how-do-I-go-about-getting-my-MU postings. That happens; even on this forum. My advise: just keep trying man. You are almost there (as you said yourself). In fact your transition is pretty much there but you fail to move over that last small hump into your dip. My suggestion is that you also focus more on getting really low in your ring dips. In the dips you show in your clip you start to transition into a hang way too early  (i.e. hands about a foot above shoulders instead of two or three inches). Go slowly down in your ring dips until your hands are as close under your shoulders as possible with under arms horizontal. In fact, the same position of your  hands and underarms (shown in your clip) when you get up into the transition from a FG pull up. Practice pushing out from that position to, say, a quarter dip and back.  If you find that cross trainers help you to get a better feel of your transition, by all means use them (I have no experience with them). Have fun training. Don’t forget to show us when you get your first MU.

 

I get what you're saying here and it sounds like a good strategy.  Ive been looking for a solid way to really work the transition aside from russians and FG pullups. 

 

Are you saying that during Ring Dips, I lower until my hands are chest level.  At this point my elbows would be pointing Back and forarms vertical. From there I should Lower my elbows making my Forearms go from vertical to horizontal and my elbows point downard?

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Jeff Walker

Another question about the Negative MUs.  

 

If you watch my video,  http://tiny.cc/mf931  right as I get to the bottom of the dip, In order to reset the false grip, I pull my hands from my sides to the front of my chest (around 56s in the first video and 32s in the second)  this sublte movement actually causes my body to slightly rise during the negative.  Is this ok.  What I am trying to avoid here is falling through the transition so I am trying to reverse the movement as best I can and my understanding of that movments goes like this.  Hands in close pull down tot he chest, hands move to the sides, elbows point upward and press intot he dip.  The reverse goes slowly drop to bottom of the dip, hands come to the chest as they find the false grip, lower down.  

 

Am i doing these right?  Or should my hands stay at my sides as I transition down.

 

Here is another video where I am specifically working a Negative muscle up 

 

http://tiny.cc/g2a61w Ist video @ 2:50s

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FritsMB Mansvelt Beck

 

.......

Am i doing these right?  ......

 

 

 

 

I tend to agree with earlier comments that you grip the rings too high with your FG pull up. Try the following. Bend your hands at your wrists. They should be close to 90 degree with your forearm. Put your hands through your rings and rest the crease at the underside of your wrist on the bottom of your ring and then grab the ring. Holding on loosely hang on the rings with your weight supported by your wrist bone. Do some quarter rom pull ups to get the feel. If it hurts then wrap a piece of ace bandage around your wrists.  And use chalk. Next step, quarter FG pull ups trying the transition as you have been doing (with increasing success).

 

For your dips, test the flexibility of your elbows as follows. Make a fist with your hands and bend your arms. You should be able to touch your shoulder with your fists. With your fists at your shoulders move your elbows backwards and forwards while visualizing your weight resting on your wrist bone. Do it in a dip position with some support from your feet. 

Just keep practicing and you will find that, eventually, you will be able to move just through the transition back and forth without loosing control.

Have fun.

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Jeff Walker

Okay, I just watched your videos and I think I may have your solution. On some of them, you looked extremely close to getting to support.

I actually ran into the same problem after I got my muscle-ups. The problem is..........................

Your false grip.

You're grabbing the ring on the side, then putting your wrist over. I find that this makes it harder to turn your body over to get into support. Hold your false grip in the middle of the ring, just like you would in a normal grip.

After I got my muscle-ups, I started doing this bad habit because I thought it was more comfortable, and I couldn't do muscle-ups anymore. I thought I got weaker, but it turns out the bad false grip was screwing me up.

I can clearly see that in your first muscle-up attempt, if your hand was in the middle of the ring, you would have made it.

I'm pretty sure that this is what is stopping you. I better see another attempt today with the proper grip! By the way, if it's too hard/awkward to hold, use chalk.

OK well Cody, I may have to buy you a big present.  Here are the results of the grip change?  I was so proud I showed my wife and she said I kipped which busted my bubble. Im not kipping am I?  My feet pop up but I am not initiating any movement with my feet.  Im just pulling hard.    Anyway, I think that the grip change was def a big help and  I think that makes sense as to why I was having trouble getting my weight in front of me.  Here are the vidoes from today.  

 

MU Attempt Video # 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsCCxLVg42I  The 2nd one seems better in both videos

 

MU Attempt Video # 2  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHSKY7ib6Io

 

Iron Cross Trainer Assisted Muscleup  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDr4ySW5rco  Ive been using these latley becuase they feel like I can really focus on Rowing my elbows back and "revealing My chest"

 

Russian Dips Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z8XYk9qSIg I try to do a full armpit version for a the first few reps and then go to the Elbows.  

 

Rope Climb  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu3bOs6P9eI

 

One thing I am a little concerned about is at the end of my workout I did Ring Dips and a dip to tuck BL).  Afterwards and especially this morning I have a chest pain in the very middle of my chest.  Sternum area.  I cant really pinpoint and it doesnt necessarily bother me.  I notice on big deep breaths.  The best way I can describe is it is when I was a kids some days I would spend all day in the pool and i kinda feels like that like a soreness I guess from taking big breaths I dont know but it immediatley reminded me of that.  I dont think its gonna impact my workouts, movements dont really bother it per se, its definaltey large inhales and also large exhales.  Should I be concerned.  I am really annoyed becuase I am really spot on now with my diet and training and seeing the best results in a long time.  

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Joshua Slocum

One thing I am a little concerned about is at the end of my workout I did Ring Dips and a dip to tuck BL).  Afterwards and especially this morning I have a chest pain in the very middle of my chest.  Sternum area.  I cant really pinpoint and it doesnt necessarily bother me.  I notice on big deep breaths.  The best way I can describe is it is when I was a kids some days I would spend all day in the pool and i kinda feels like that like a soreness I guess from taking big breaths I dont know but it immediatley reminded me of that.  I dont think its gonna impact my workouts, movements dont really bother it per se, its definaltey large inhales and also large exhales.  Should I be concerned.  I am really annoyed becuase I am really spot on now with my diet and training and seeing the best results in a long time.  

You probably just strained something. Don't do any more dips to tuck BL for now, and avoid any exercises that make it hurt. 

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Jeff Walker

I dont even know what did it to be honest I didnt feel anything

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Coach Sommer

Whatever in the world prompted you to attempt a dip to BL?  That was beyond foolish.

 

With a rope of that length you should be doing at least 4-5 non-stop laps to count as a single rope climb.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Brian Li

You did kip by lifting the legs up fast even if you didn't initiate the pull-up with it, it still built momentum to assist you. Try not to kip and if you can't do it without a kip then use some kipping to help you and gradually reduce it as you get stronger or add negatives.

 

It's a good thing you changed your grip on the rings. I never noticed that you were grabbing so high before.

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Jeff Walker

OK so here is a comparison picture of my last Failed attempt VS my Success one today after Cory's Grip Advice (Thanks Again!).

 

Honestly I didn't think a minor change in grip would be effective but the the MU i got today was the smoothest and easiest one I have ever done.  In fact I did 2, TWICE.  So from my experience up to this point it was a BIG HELP!  Granted on this board its not much but its progress and thats all im after 

 

So attached is a picture from those 2 attempts taking a closer look at what Corey is talking about.  

 

I'm posting this because I don't think I would have discovered it w/o tat advice and hopefully help other out there who aren't as willing to be a PITA and ask as many questions as I have.   :)

______________________________________________________________________________

 

Okay, I just watched your videos and I think I may have your solution. On some of them, you looked extremely close to getting to support.

I actually ran into the same problem after I got my muscle-ups. The problem is..........................

Your false grip.

You're grabbing the ring on the side, then putting your wrist over. I find that this makes it harder to turn your body over to get into support. Hold your false grip in the middle of the ring, just like you would in a normal grip.  After I got my muscle-ups, I started doing this bad habit because I thought it was more comfortable, and I couldn't do muscle-ups anymore. I thought I got weaker, but it turns out the bad false grip was screwing me up.


I can clearly see that in your first muscle-up attempt, if your hand was in the middle of the ring, you would have made it.I'm pretty sure that this is what is stopping you. I better see another attempt today with the proper grip! By the way, if it's too hard/awkward to hold, use chalk.

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

Failed Attempt Video  http://tiny.cc/syxw1w

Successful Attempt Video  http://tiny.cc/arg81w

 

post-4576-0-64400100-1377198887_thumb.jp

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Christian Sørlie

Whatever in the world prompted you to attempt a dip to BL?  That was beyond foolish.

 

With a rope of that length you should be doing at least 4-5 non-stop laps to count as a single rope climb.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Ok, this was not the original post of Coach, don't really know how it changed but I had read it before it became this.

 

The post continued in fashion of the first sentence, urging you to not do exercises you are not ready for and sharing experince of others who have done so and paid the price.

 

So be careful, you said yourself that things are going very good now. Keep them that way. Trying to get ahead of oneself usually leaves one behind.

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Jeff Walker

Yeah Im sure he maybe toned it down.   I had done them before w/o a problem but who knows, hopefully this minor annoyance wont set me back.

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Joshua Naterman

You do realize that you are still kipping, right? Your legs are flying up quite fast. 

 

You have improved, which is good, but you should realize that you have now made pretty much all the technical improvement you can make, and you're still too weak for a slow, controlled muscle up. That's not meant to be insulting, but you need to be realistic about where you are and what you have accomplished, and what you have not yet accomplished.

 

At this point it's all just boring strength work for you.

 

The dip to BL is quite a strain, and you shouldn't be doing those yet. I'm glad you only did one, but I think you should stop going to the gym with this subconscious urge to get hurt. Sticking to a plan for the long haul is the only way to get the most out of your training time.

 

Playing with other movements that are on a similar strength level to what you're training at the moment is one thing, but jumping to a completely different, much higher level is a bad idea. I am speaking from prior experience. Don't let your fun time get you injured.

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Coach Sommer

Ok, this was not the original post of Coach, don't really know how it changed but I had read it before it became this.

The post continued in fashion of the first sentence, urging you to not do exercises you are not ready for and sharing experince of others who have done so and paid the price.

So be careful, you said yourself that things are going very good now. Keep them that way. Trying to get ahead of oneself usually leaves one behind.

As he appears to be bound amd determined to continue despite my previous advice to the contrary, I decided he probably was not going to listen until he gets injured and learns the hard way that I actually know what I am talking about.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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FREDERIC DUPONT

(...) not going to listen until he gets injured (...)

 

popcorn.gif

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Mikkel Ravn

Dip to BL is a move I've been lusting for, but my experience with progressing too fast with BL in the past, tells me that I'd be f***ing up my elbows in a really bad way. Dude, seriously, don't play with those kinds of movements, they will screw you up, and you won't even have the capacity to do any meaningful kind of volume on them. You'll get none of the benefits, but get a huge injury potential. This system hinges on progressions, so stick to them.

Think about it, if your 1 rep max in the back squat was 250 lbs, would you get under the bar with 500 lbs, just for fun? You'd be squished, and the same is the case with the harder progressions, but you won't know before it's too late.

Ultimately, our training is for health, since very few of us here on the forum are anywhere near a professional level, right?

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Jeff Walker

Nice post Fred that made me laugh. No i do understand about taking it slow now, im finally in a good place now so i want to stay here and keep moving fwd.

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Kate Abernethy

Well done, let's see the perfect good form muscle up next :-) and kudos to your wife for keeping you honest!

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Jeff Walker

You do realize that you are still kipping, right? Your legs are flying up quite fast. 

 

You have improved, which is good, but you should realize that you have now made pretty much all the technical improvement you can make, and you're still too weak for a slow, controlled muscle up. That's not meant to be insulting, but you need to be realistic about where you are and what you have accomplished, and what you have not yet accomplished.

 

At this point it's all just boring strength work for you.

 

The dip to BL is quite a strain, and you shouldn't be doing those yet. I'm glad you only did one, but I think you should stop going to the gym with this subconscious urge to get hurt. Sticking to a plan for the long haul is the only way to get the most out of your training time.

 

Playing with other movements that are on a similar strength level to what you're training at the moment is one thing, but jumping to a completely different, much higher level is a bad idea. I am speaking from prior experience. Don't let your fun time get you injured.

Josh, what are the movements I can play around with?   :)   

 

I ask because its hard trying to find out what you can do and what you cant do on your own.  Before you say it, II KNOW FOUNDATION DOES THIS.   So I am doing F1 but because my mobility is terrible I am not getting much from it in terms of strength, I am using it to fix my flexibility.  Ive played sports my whole life, an avid weightlifeter, runner, swimmer as well and I am simply NOT FLEIXBLE - PERIOD.  Ive never touched my toes with straight legs, I can barely touch my back, etc   So, the strength elements in the beginning steps are too easy and the flexibility elements are too hard so as the course suggests, I am working on the flexibility elements until I can master them, Which by the way I doubt I ever will.  So I'm really using F1 as a warm up and I am doing my workout which is Bent Arm, Straight Arm, Legs.  F1 coincides well because its already separated into these categories. However, when it comes to actually choosing exercises, I have to experiment a little and that comes with some risk. , 

 

I do understand the Risk of getting injured and how much that would suck but I admit Its very hard for me to curb my enthusiasm. When I was just lifting weights, that was always served me well and I honestly never got injured.  So far in my short experience with this training, I've had a shoulder issue, a finder tendon or ligament issue doing assisted OACs, a bicep issue, and now this sternum thing. Luckily none have been severe and I've been able to work through.  However, each time something like that happens , my greatest fear is  wont  be able to continue.  So I think I've learned my lesson but there is still that risk of doing something the first time.  

 

Regarding my sternum issue i posted about yesterday, today I did my Straight Arm exercise like PL, FL, BL, support holds, cross trainers,and I dint feel any issues at all.  I felt a little something when I was doing HS against the wall and when I get into a dead hang or get inverted - but that was about it.  And it wasn't really a pain, more like an irritation or stretch.  I also swam .5 mile and i was fine.  When I take a very deep breath and I kind of feel a stretch there but its not bad. I am not familiar with little tweaks and strains, are there degrees of severity?  Is it possible that I just had a minor over-stretch?  When I read about Costochondritis most people are describing major pain/discomfort but my issue (not sure I have costo) is very subtle.

 

Thanks for all the help!

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Joshua Naterman

You have strained the ligaments that hold the sternal structure together, and possibly the cartilage. Right now it's not a big deal, but if a single rep did that you should realize that regular practice will wreck you in a hurry.

 

As for what you can/can't do, I would just wait until the Movement series comes out. In the meantime, keep working F1, keep working the exercise plan I gave you for your MU, and work on your pike and straddle pike flexibility. You'll be plenty busy.

 

I will suggest developing serious flexibility in those pikes before working on serious strength in squats or deadlifts. I have found that working strength and flexibility side by side is not very easy.

 

I think that is why Coach has so much fundamental flexibility work in the beginning, because once you've got it it is easier to keep as you get stronger, but if you start off really strong and inflexible you end up having to stall out on strength work until your flexibility catches up if you actually intend to make progress. This is another reason why doing H1 right now is a good idea... by the time you get through F3-4, your strength will have tightened up areas of the shoulder girdle and will make it much more difficult to achieve what you want to achieve in H1 (the mobility portions).

 

There are certain temporary sacrifices we have to make if we want a truly wide range of abilities. Developing good mobility early is one of those, I think. It does require that you limit your strength work to some extent, and that you progress "slowly," but in the long run this leads to a much wider range of abilities. We're all different in the level of extreme strength and mobility we can achieve, but we can all make the progress we need to make for these programs.

 

Stick with the program, it will guide you well.

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Joshua Slocum

Jwalker: have you considered taking up a dedicated stretching regimen to accelerate your progress in the iM's? Kit Laughlin's work, for example, is highly recommended. His book is rather expensive in the US, but he has a ton of free material on Youtube and he has some cheap digital downloads on his site that explain how to do Contract-Release stretching. 

 

I think that is why Coach has so much fundamental flexibility work in the beginning, because once you've got it it is easier to keep as you get stronger, but if you start off really strong and inflexible you end up having to stall out on strength work until your flexibility catches up if you actually intend to make progress. This is another reason why doing H1 right now is a good idea... by the time you get through F3-4, your strength will have tightened up areas of the shoulder girdle and will make it much more difficult to achieve what you want to achieve in H1 (the mobility portions).

 

To corroborate on this: I have been working on dislocates/inlocates for months. And I'm maybe half way there. 

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Joshua Naterman

Hahaha, with maltese strength I bet you're having all KINDS of fun with the H1 mobility :) Good to hear you are making progress!

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Jeff Walker

I've considered buying Kits book but cant find it anywhere

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Christian Sørlie

www.kitlauglin.com and go to store

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