Seriously over analyzing nutrition

[Vinni Williams]

I feel like I need to share my ideas on nutrition. This is aimed at anyone who feels confused or overwhelmed about how/what/when they should be eating. Let me break it down for you real quick. I a lot of people over analyze their nutritional situation/goals. I have been that guy, the "body builder" who eats 6 meals a day. The person who eats a "pre workout" " "post workout meal" and the person who freaks out if they don't get enough protein in a day. I use to take all kinds of different supplements. Then, slowly, I realized something. I was making it too complicated. I have taken many nutrition classes in college and have come to realize there is no secret to nutrition. If you eat a healthy well balanced meal and train hard then you will make extraordinary gains. Many people tend to over analyze nutrion and treat it as though it were a secret code they have yet to crack. When it comes down to it, I focus 10% on nutrition and 90% on training. Look at coaches athletes. They are young kids who go to school, hangout with friends and have their mom/dad cooking their meals. I doubt they think much about their nutrition besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of complex carbs before a competition. Think of how you ate when you were a kid! And they are going to national championships! Just my two cents.

[Joshua Slocum]

Exactly right. Eat healthy meals with lots of protein and vegetables and you're 90% of the way to perfect nutrition. 

[Jono]

I agree. Just follow the general guidelines and be sensible. People need to stop worrying so much eating say 65g of food X at 3:15pm followed 90s later by 250mL of drink Y. Nutrient timing is far less important than actually hitting your macronutrient/micronutrients for the day.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

I agree. Just follow the general guidelines and be sensible. People need to stop worrying so much eating say 65g of food X at 3:15pm followed 90s later by 250mL of drink Y. Nutrient timing is far less important than actually hitting your macronutrient/micronutrients for the day.

which is exactly where I'm at right now, I'm currently not hitting my macronutrient needs for the day. 

 

if you already know your basal metabolic rate(mine is 1900) how do you estimate how many calories I need daily, if I do F1 5day/split and H1 on 4day split(Monday,Tuesday/Thursday,Friday)? 

 

this is what's been consuming my study time because I think I keep getting wrong calculations. 

 

so far i've had people recommend me eating 2000-2500-3000 calories daily. but which one IS IT? 

[Alexander Svensson]

The only way to find out is to stick with a number for a few weeks and check your weight every day. Then you will see if you need to go higher or lower.

[Daniel Burnham]

True the nuances of nutrition for performance will be lost on most fitness enthusiasts.  If you are an elite athlete with a tremendous workload then things will be a bit different.

 

Remember that eating for health is also important.  Its not just about hitting macros because we need additional nutrients to make our bodies run correctly.  We cannot live off of macro powders. 

 

Pretty much what all nutrition advice says on this forum is to eat whole foods and hit your requirements whether you measure it by the hour or by the day.  Combining this with other "supplements" such as bone broth, certain nuts, and egg yolks will keep you feeling happy and nourished.

[Colin Macdonald]

Many people tend to over analyze nutrion and treat it as though it were a secret code they have yet to crack.

QFT. So many people would save themselves so much anxiety if they really understood this. A "secret code to crack" is a great analogy.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

True the nuances of nutrition for performance will be lost on most fitness enthusiasts.  If you are an elite athlete with a tremendous workload then things will be a bit different.

 

Remember that eating for health is also important.  Its not just about hitting macros because we need additional nutrients to make our bodies run correctly.  We cannot live off of macro powders. 

 

Pretty much what all nutrition advice says on this forum is to eat whole foods and hit your requirements whether you measure it by the hour or by the day.  Combining this with other "supplements" such as bone broth, certain nuts, and egg yolks will keep you feeling happy and nourished.

another example of my improper use of a language that sometimes escapes me. then my former statement was geared toward requirements. 

 

I need to know my carb/protein/fat requirements, which i already do, now how it all falls into caloric value is my confusion due to my calculations having a lot of different numbers. (1000 calorie variants) 

 

so it's like "okay, do i eat 2500 or 3500? or who knows if it's more." I can see that im eating way too little, given that i'm burning muscle and storing body fat. 

 

edit: for example, i weighed in today at 158.8 lbs = roughly 72kg.

 

72kg = 144g of protein + 360g of carbs = 1872 calories(proteins calculated at 3calories per g and carbs at 4 calories per g) now that would mean if i'm supposed to follow my calculations, i can be eating anything from 118, 618 or 1118 calories in -FAT- 

 

#confused

[Joel Tomkins]

 

72kg = 144g of protein + 360g of carbs = 1872 calories(proteins calculated at 3calories per g and carbs at 4 calories per g) now that would mean if i'm supposed to follow my calculations, i can be eating anything from 118, 618 or 1118 calories in -FAT- 

 

So to my understanding you have covered your protein and carb requirements, and how much fat you can eat is going to be dependent on how active you are. Potentially that is where each calorie calculator may be giving you different results - in estimating the amount of calories you are expending each day on top of your maintenance needs.

My aim is to eat around 2500-3000 calories per day and I am a few kg heavier so I think you'd be fine on 2500, unless you do a lot of physical activity every day. Eating around the 2750 mark, I am not having much trouble putting on weight (I've gone from 73 to 78 in a few months and only gone up 1-2% in body fat at the most).

I'd be surprised if you were eating so little that you were losing muscle but putting on fat in visible amounts unless you aren't training enough to keep your muscle mass.

My advice would be to choose a number and stick with it for a couple of weeks. Chart your weight and body fat percentage and see how it changes. After a few weeks you'll know whether or not you need to eat more or less. It's easy to do in Excel.

[Joshua Naterman]

... Think of how you ate when you were a kid! And they are going to national championships! Just my two cents.

I don't think this is the best idea for everyone hahaha Half of m y childhood nutrition would probably horrify you guys. It was a recipe for obesity, and I am fairly convinced that the magical hormones of youth combined with a very, very high level of physical activity, are the two things that kept me from being a fatty. Well, maybe some good genes too, but then again there are very few of my relatives that aren't overweight or obese...

 

Seriously though, the gist of your original post is good

 

We all have to start off with the very basics:

 

1) basic information: What is protein, carbs, fats?

 

2) Basic meal construction:

•  
• Get a serving of protein that's close to the size of your palm with every meal
• Fill at least half your plate with a pile of at least two different veggies.
• Have some fruit when you want a sweet treat.
• Eat whatever starch sources you enjoy, but preferably stick to whole food sources.
• Remember to have some fat with each meal. Might be a tablespoon of oil or butter, or there might already be plenty of fat in the meat (if you eat meat).
• Have the starch, veggies, and protein (meat or vegetarian sources, doesn't matter that much) at every meal.
• Drink water while eating.
• Stop eating when you start feeling full, regardless of whether your plate is empty or not.

 

That's it. Those are the basics.

 

It's important to understand that you have to start with the basics. There are details that you learn later that will help you understand more about WHY these basics are important, and why there are particular times and situations when we deviate from them, but you shouldn't worry about that kind of thing until this stuff I just posted is second nature. If you still have to think about even one of those sentences here and there, you need to just keep on working on these concepts before you worry about anything else.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

I need to get this requirements things down..what was kind of shocking is that just up until recently, i was only eating around 500-1200 calories daily. 

 

if i can get this set up, i can go back to 5day F1 and 4day H1. my recovery wasn't upto par because of the way i was eating. 

[Daniel Burnham]

I find it hard to believe you only ate a little over 500 calories in a day. You do realize that is like one hamburger right? I would have to try very hard to keep it that low without feeling extremely hungry.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

I find it hard to believe you only ate a little over 500 calories in a day. You do realize that is like one hamburger right? I would have to try very hard to keep it that low without feeling extremely hungry.

believe it...and yes, i was extremely hungry.

we've all gone through hardship, at varying degrees and i've been blessed enough to not hit rock bottom, yet when it comes to food, it was a hard but necesary choice to follow through with.

I was scammed in a business project that I lost tens of thousands of dollars in and my lifestyle was drastically affected. my coping mechanism was to find the highest strategic value. lost money in lawyers, they never delivered, had to stop riding bmx and making non-challant decisions like going to the movies turned into having to micromanage my finances to the point where everything in my life was affected. I didn't begin to have a more outgoing social life because i just couldnt afford it. i always looked for a way to see my friends and it not involving money because all the money i had on me HAD to go to my business, if i wanted to get out of that rut. thank God, the results are beginning to show.

not easy when you're only 19-24 and extremely inexperienced in the ways of the business world.

even making a $100 grocery run was close to impossible until only recently. all the fitness data i had before? second hand from friends. F1 and H1 were my reward after years of staying afloat and staying disciplined and moving forward...thanks to a certain individuals selfish act of fraud and breach of contract.

-this- is why i spend so much time around here. GST is my route back to what i love doing the most, being active. only, i've been so used to eating like a peasant, im working out like a champ and -still- eating like a peasant and have realized that i don't have to do that anymore...i just pepper you guys with a lot of questions because i want to learn how eat like a champ haha

[Joachim Nagler]

Keilani, good to hear things are getting better for you.

 

I'm not in the same spot as you but I'm still not eating enough some days especially on stressful days at the lab in the university. What I found helped me quite a bit is to prepare more food in the evening so that you have something left for the next day. 

Also plotting my energy balance graph (like with nutritiming) helped me a lot to realize in the beginning when I should eat.

 

As for your energy requirements: you said you already have your BMR. Now you have to search for a MET table to calculate your actual requirement for your workouts.

[Keenan Smith]

My philosophy is quite different from what I've read on this read as I strongly believe and follow the term "IIFYM" or rather Flexible Dieting.

From what I'm reading here on this thread, I'm seeing "bro science" rather than some definitive facts such as what is macronutrients, micronutrients (fibers,minerals, and vitamins), calories, and water. And that's it.

I too came from the world of bodybuilding where that is pretty much the mecca for all things considered "healthy" about nutrition as no one in the world does it better than them or knows about the little things that most people wouldn't think about at all when it comes to their diet.

In a nutshell, the body does not recognize "food labels", "junk food", "clean food", or whatever the spin is on it, just the number of servings you put into your mouth which will then be converted to the necessary energy needed for that day.

I'm not saying skimp out on the very much so needed fruits and vegetables for micros as the body couldn't function optimally without them. Let alone be nearly as satisfying compared to eating nothing but poptarts every day.

Could one get away with doing it? Yes, but the problem is unless you are moving enough due to high amounts of sugar (even though yest, it is a carb), diabetes plus numerous other health issues can be a problem with that lifestyle choice of going one extreme rather than a real balance to their diet and life.

(*Need I say the blood sugar level swings are extremely intolerable by most and would eventually want to seek out something that doesn't cause that feeling of immediate lethargy.)

But since no one in history is able to NOT stay away from the foods that they love like pizza, doughnuts, etc; there is absolutely no harm in eating what you want, every single day if desired, in moderation as most of your nutrition should be coming from nutrient dense foods such as "whole foods" anyways because..naturally...everything you need for an optimized diet already comes in a higher concentration amount of what is needed through "whole foods" like chicken, beef, and pork.

(*Opinion and speculation bit here: Let alone, I highly doubt any of foods "grown" today contain nearly as many minerals and vitamins as they did back before massive agriculture took foot upon the world to feed populations by the masses. That's why I'd recommend a multivitamin a day regardless of how "well" you eat.)

There have been a few man made products that could be considered "whole foods" because they literally have everything needed for a protein source such as whey and casein thus making it a meal..even though some people get freaked out by that because they cannot process the thought that it was "made" rather than grown even though it comes from a cow.

My $0.02 though. I'm coming from a dietitian/natural bodybuilding/ scientific research world plus friends who would clearly demonstrate that this works and VERY well. In fact because of this, they've been able to maintain extreme levels of leanness and still remain healthy.

Hope this helps some of you out in living a little aha.  

[Daniel Burnham]

What are you refering to as bro science?

[Graham Smith]

Keilani, Tough break, but be thankful it happened to you young enough to start over!  Brown rice and red lentils are a great dirt cheap staple to get your required calories and protein with complete amino acid profile.  some onions and tomatoes in there when your feeling rich, and maybe some spices if you're lucky.  I have it for lunch pretty much every day, costs pennies per serve.  Occasionally I'll go wild and have beans and bacon instead.  Fry up the bacon with onions, throw in some tomatoes and pre-soaked beans add a dash of worchestershire sauce, salt, pepper, some water and simmer.  Big pot'll last you a week for a few dollars. get your variety by eating it as is, on toast, on rice, with salad...  I'm comfortably well off nowadays, but I still eat peasant food because its delicious and cheap!

[Joel Tomkins]

My philosophy is quite different from what I've read on this read as I strongly believe and follow the term "IIFYM" or rather Flexible Dieting.

From what I'm reading here on this thread, I'm seeing "bro science" rather than some definitive facts such as what is macronutrients, micronutrients (fibers,minerals, and vitamins), calories, and water. And that's it.

 

How much have you read?

 

 

I too came from the world of bodybuilding where that is pretty much the mecca for all things considered "healthy" about nutrition as no one in the world does it better than them or knows about the little things that most people wouldn't think about at all when it comes to their diet.

In a nutshell, the body does not recognize "food labels", "junk food", "clean food", or whatever the spin is on it, just the number of servings you put into your mouth which will then be converted to the necessary energy needed for that day.

 

I haven't read every post on the forum but I'm pretty sure no one has claimed food labels have any effect on health/gains and there is more to nutrition than number of mouthfuls... I'm also pretty sure body building isn't "the mecca for all things considered 'healthy' about nutrition". Sure, the successful body builders know a thing or two about getting jacked but I wouldn't be turning to a body builder for my health advice. 

 

 

There have been a few man made products that could be considered "whole foods" because they literally have everything needed for a protein source such as whey and casein thus making it a meal..even though some people get freaked out by that because they cannot process the thought that it was "made" rather than grown even though it comes from a cow.

 

What are these whole foods? Just because it has two types of protein doesn't make it a whole food. 

I get that you are trying to say the finer details of nutrition aren't as important as just getting energy in but that doesn't make everything else broscience.

[Jon Douglas]

I too came from the world of bodybuilding where that is pretty much the mecca for all things considered "healthy" about nutrition as no one in the world does it better than them or knows about the little things that most people wouldn't think about at all when it comes to their diet.

What????????

[Vincent Stoyas]

I must say, I have been following Josh's basic food guidelines listed above for a few months now. I also do 20-30g pulses of protein every few hours and I have seen quite a huge difference in body composition.

I know I'll sound lame saying this, but I don't even workout consistently. Usually just a workout or two here and there. Despite the lack of working out, I look much bigger and I am pretty lean. It seems like eating like I'm about to work out provides gains just by itself. Now to stop being an idiot, get some motivation, and train (The idiot being myself, of course).

[Keenan Smith]

How much have you read?

^Plenty. Not only read but applied, went to school for, and experienced others individuals teaching.

 

 

I haven't read every post on the forum but I'm pretty sure no one has claimed food labels have any effect on health/gains and there is more to nutrition than number of mouthfuls... I'm also pretty sure body building isn't "the mecca for all things considered 'healthy' about nutrition". Sure, the successful body builders know a thing or two about getting jacked but I wouldn't be turning to a body builder for my health advice. 

^Well..the reason being it REALLY is the mecca is because there IS no other sport in the world that the goal is to achieve extreme levels of leanness without getting sick and stay healthy while doing so as other sports are simply focusing on performance which is a piece of cake. Bodybuilders and physique aesthetic enthusiasts have much more to consider than just performance. The attention to the very small details in their diets puts them on a different level as to the terms to the way they eat meticulously as 

 

 

What are these whole foods? Just because it has two types of protein doesn't make it a whole food. 

I get that you are trying to say the finer details of nutrition aren't as important as just getting energy in but that doesn't make everything else broscience.

^Whole foods can be described as everything considered "healthy" in the health pyramid. And yes it does, if you have the complete strand of 8 necessary amino acids needed to optimize everything in your body such as eggs or whey, it's a whole food. The extra 14 can assist further in recovery and other things but they are not necessary in any way.

 

(Not including Joshua Naterman's list)

The broscience bit was what I first read with vinni20's statement saying,

 

 

"I feel like I need to share my ideas on nutrition. This is aimed at anyone who feels confused or overwhelmed about how/what/when they should be eating. Let me break it down for you real quick. I a lot of people over analyze their nutritional situation/goals. I have been that guy, the "body builder" who eats 6 meals a day. The person who eats a "pre workout" " "post workout meal" and the person who freaks out if they don't get enough protein in a day. I use to take all kinds of different supplements. Then, slowly, I realized something. I was making it too complicated. I have taken many nutrition classes in college and have come to realize there is no secret to nutrition. If you eat a healthy well balanced meal and train hard then you will make extraordinary gains. Many people tend to over analyze nutrition and treat it as though it were a secret code they have yet to crack. When it comes down to it, I focus 10% on nutrition and  90% on training. Look at coaches athletes. They are young kids who go to school, hangout with friends and have their mom/dad cooking their meals. I doubt they think much about their nutrition besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of complex carbs before a competition. Think of how you ate when you were a kid! And they are going to national championships! Just my two cents."

With that logic of not caring, it's easy to see why I'm calling broscience plus stated very general things and not being specific enough on  science based facts rather than pure opinion. As for the child bit saying they could care less besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of "complex carbs" (yes there is a thing a complex carbs, but since Gatorade sugar content is the ultimate carb source in this situation, it's a far better choice of energy for competition day for being instantaneously available, especially for children), you'd be surprised how much they can get away with when they are younger and not have to be as conscious when they are our age and it begins to take a toll...and he is acting like his body is just like these children who able to get away with it. It doesn't work that way.

 

It matters what your macro nutrient ratios are as they solely will either give or take away that day's performance  Especially with gymnastics. Based on what we do, we're considered power athletes just like weight lifters of all types meaning a ratio of 1.2-1.4g/lb Protein, 0.45g/lb Fat (a starting point to be played with based on your performance , and 0.85-1.0g/lb Carbs for a generic floorwork gymnastic athlete such as we. Of course you'd want to eat a higher amount of carbs on workout days for performance reasons obviously and lower on off days as you will not be needed as much. Playing around with that fat ration on workout days is also a good idea. This diet ratio is perfect for someone maintaining what muscle mass they have and also a bit off fatloss that will slowly show results if brisk walking is done everyday.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

(Not including Joshua Naterman's list)

The broscience bit was what I first read with vinni20's statement saying,

 

 

"I feel like I need to share my ideas on nutrition. This is aimed at anyone who feels confused or overwhelmed about how/what/when they should be eating. Let me break it down for you real quick. I a lot of people over analyze their nutritional situation/goals. I have been that guy, the "body builder" who eats 6 meals a day. The person who eats a "pre workout" " "post workout meal" and the person who freaks out if they don't get enough protein in a day. I use to take all kinds of different supplements. Then, slowly, I realized something. I was making it too complicated. I have taken many nutrition classes in college and have come to realize there is no secret to nutrition. If you eat a healthy well balanced meal and train hard then you will make extraordinary gains. Many people tend to over analyze nutrition and treat it as though it were a secret code they have yet to crack. When it comes down to it, I focus 10% on nutrition and  90% on training. Look at coaches athletes. They are young kids who go to school, hangout with friends and have their mom/dad cooking their meals. I doubt they think much about their nutrition besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of complex carbs before a competition. Think of how you ate when you were a kid! And they are going to national championships! Just my two cents."

With that logic of not caring, it's easy to see why I'm calling broscience plus stated very general things and not being specific enough on  science based facts rather than pure opinion. As for the child bit saying they could care less besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of "complex carbs" (yes there is a thing a complex carbs, but since Gatorade sugar content is the ultimate carb source in this situation, it's a far better choice of energy for competition day for being instantaneously available, especially for children), you'd be surprised how much they can get away with when they are younger and not have to be as conscious when they are our age and it begins to take a toll...and he is acting like his body is just like these children who able to get away with it. It doesn't work that way.

 

It matters what your macro nutrient ratios are as they solely will either give or take away that day's performance  Especially with gymnastics. Based on what we do, we're considered power athletes just like weight lifters of all types meaning a ratio of 1.2-1.4g/lb Protein, 0.45g/lb Fat (a starting point to be played with based on your performance , and 0.85-1.0g/lb Carbs for a generic floorwork gymnastic athlete such as we. Of course you'd want to eat a higher amount of carbs on workout days for performance reasons obviously and lower on off days as you will not be needed as much. Playing around with that fat ration on workout days is also a good idea. This diet ratio is perfect for someone maintaining what muscle mass they have and also a bit off fatloss that will slowly show results if brisk walking is done everyday.

thanks for the insight. im sure that applying this "let's start from the basics and keep complication to a minimum" especially after my experience the past few days with actually getting hungry every few hrs and eating a balanced meal with veggies, carbs and proteins can put a lot of confusion to rest and results where they need to be, by putting the energy to work in your home, your playground of gym complex of your choosing. 

 

I look forward to seeing how you progress throughout the years, since like my I've been taught a very close mentor "we teach with our words, but we make contagious our way of life through example." 

[Daniel Burnham]

(Not including Joshua Naterman's list)

The broscience bit was what I first read with vinni20's statement saying,

 

 

"I feel like I need to share my ideas on nutrition. This is aimed at anyone who feels confused or overwhelmed about how/what/when they should be eating. Let me break it down for you real quick. I a lot of people over analyze their nutritional situation/goals. I have been that guy, the "body builder" who eats 6 meals a day. The person who eats a "pre workout" " "post workout meal" and the person who freaks out if they don't get enough protein in a day. I use to take all kinds of different supplements. Then, slowly, I realized something. I was making it too complicated. I have taken many nutrition classes in college and have come to realize there is no secret to nutrition. If you eat a healthy well balanced meal and train hard then you will make extraordinary gains. Many people tend to over analyze nutrition and treat it as though it were a secret code they have yet to crack. When it comes down to it, I focus 10% on nutrition and  90% on training. Look at coaches athletes. They are young kids who go to school, hangout with friends and have their mom/dad cooking their meals. I doubt they think much about their nutrition besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of complex carbs before a competition. Think of how you ate when you were a kid! And they are going to national championships! Just my two cents."

With that logic of not caring, it's easy to see why I'm calling broscience plus stated very general things and not being specific enough on  science based facts rather than pure opinion. As for the child bit saying they could care less besides avoiding too much candy and eating lots of "complex carbs" (yes there is a thing a complex carbs, but since Gatorade sugar content is the ultimate carb source in this situation, it's a far better choice of energy for competition day for being instantaneously available, especially for children), you'd be surprised how much they can get away with when they are younger and not have to be as conscious when they are our age and it begins to take a toll...and he is acting like his body is just like these children who able to get away with it. It doesn't work that way.

 

It matters what your macro nutrient ratios are as they solely will either give or take away that day's performance  Especially with gymnastics. Based on what we do, we're considered power athletes just like weight lifters of all types meaning a ratio of 1.2-1.4g/lb Protein, 0.45g/lb Fat (a starting point to be played with based on your performance , and 0.85-1.0g/lb Carbs for a generic floorwork gymnastic athlete such as we. Of course you'd want to eat a higher amount of carbs on workout days for performance reasons obviously and lower on off days as you will not be needed as much. Playing around with that fat ration on workout days is also a good idea. This diet ratio is perfect for someone maintaining what muscle mass they have and also a bit off fatloss that will slowly show results if brisk walking is done everyday.

I am not a RD and I don't claim to be.  But it seems you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between health and body composition.  Body builders do a ton of things that aren't healthy including taking diuretics for competitions and staying in prolong.  Yes, ketosis isn't optimally healthy.  I don't care to get into that here but sufficed to say for the general population you have no business in staying in ketosis.

 

Also whole foods are foods that are WHOLE!  Don't get confused and think i am talking about complete proteins.  I am talking about complete fruits vegetables and the like.  Natural non-processed.  Now I understand that pretty much all food undergoes some process, but I think most basic cooking variations keep the foods mostly in their whole form. The reason that anyone makes this distinction is because there are literally thousands if not millions of components of foods that we cannot recreate in vitamin pills or any supplement.  We cant even identify a lot of them!

 

The rest of your advice is fairly decent.  Though we need to make the distinction between GST and gymnastics.  What we do here is GST for the most part which can fall into the anerobic power category.  Gymnastics also falls mostly in this category but I would argue that there is a good amount of aerobic metabolism going on especially on floor.

[Keenan Smith]

I am not a RD and I don't claim to be.  But it seems you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between health and body composition.  Body builders do a ton of things that aren't healthy including taking diuretics for competitions and staying in prolong.  Yes, ketosis isn't optimally healthy.  I don't care to get into that here but sufficed to say for the general population you have no business in staying in ketosis.

 

Also whole foods are foods that are WHOLE!  Don't get confused and think i am talking about complete proteins.  I am talking about complete fruits vegetables and the like.  Natural non-processed.  Now I understand that pretty much all food undergoes some process, but I think most basic cooking variations keep the foods mostly in their whole form. The reason that anyone makes this distinction is because there are literally thousands if not millions of components of foods that we cannot recreate in vitamin pills or any supplement.  We cant even identify a lot of them!

 

The rest of your advice is fairly decent.  Though we need to make the distinction between GST and gymnastics.  What we do here is GST for the most part which can fall into the anerobic power category.  Gymnastics also falls mostly in this category but I would argue that there is a good amount of aerobic metabolism going on especially on floor.

Which is why I gave the guide lines for general usage with ratios I mentioned as rations match what a typical person here would be doing, and remain healthy. I'm not saying eat like bodybuilder which it seems that what you're saying with the body recomposition bit. This is fine for anyone including the general population as there needs a balance of ratios according to what you do day to day..which I just presented.

Also where did you get ketosis and immediate associate that with being in that state after a natural bodybuilding competition? They are never in ketosis during competition before or after as they eat carbohydrates to fill out and to feel relieved afterwards. I wasn't talking about it previously but that is actually something good we should talk about anyways and its misconceptions. Yes, no one should be doing it for too long as  this is nothing more than a crash diet protocol for either being late on a cut or jump starting a diet. Refeeds during then should be necessary due to it hormone reasons.

As for the whole food bit, anything (including vegetables, fruit, meat, etc) grown is a whole food. And when you mean whole food you mean micro-nutrient dense foods which is WHOLE foods yes? The only time that nutrition looses partially some its value is when fruit, vegetables, or dairy gets cooked to a degree while meat and whey will always keep their same micro nutrient value regardless if cooked or not. All fruit, vegetables, meats, and dairy however have a constant caloric value regardless what form they take.

Bodybuilding..or rather natural bodybuilding isn't bad. It only when people make poor decision in nutrition ratios and do so for continuous years that it's horrible for overall health. My people (Coaches, Dietitians, and other PT's like me,) don't ever use diuretics as it isn't necessary for being shredded or needed to get shredded as you are saying as if that's a general thing we "ALL" do.

The term health fyi means either "The state of being free from illness or injury" or it means "A person's mental or physical condition". Both meanings apply directly to what we all do if you are seeking to be healthy, even other athletes from different sports period.

Being free of illness and injury plus being a good physical/mental condition is health. Which is what we do, bodybuilder or not.

[Joel Tomkins]

^Plenty. Not only read but applied, went to school for, and experienced others individuals teaching.

 

I wasn't questioning your education or experience on the subject, but you claimed that the majority of what you are reading on GB forum is broscience. I asked how much of the forums you have read as if you had read the majority of posts you would find most people giving good advice and if not, Josh and others correcting any misinformation.

Daniel has pretty much summed up what I would have said. It seems like you have a few different definitions to us in terms of whole foods and general health. The definition that you posted for health is fine but no where in there does it say you have to know how to get buff to be healthy.

You also are generalizing a lot. There is a huge range of philosophies on nutrition and training in every sport which is why statements like "bodybuilding is the mecca for all things healthy" just aren't right. There are no doubt some really smart, healthy body builders out there but there is many more that just don't have a clue. The term 'broscience' actually came from body building so obviously that community isn't perfect.

The OP was trying to make the point (and using kids who aren't thinking about these things as an example) that actually eating and training are more efficient ways of spending your time than over thinking it. No broscience there!