Foundation One and Weightlifting

[Brenno Ribeiro]

Hey guys I'm looking to purchase foundation one but i just have some basic questions regarding weightlifting and GST. I really want to do gymnastics style training but I also really like weightlifting and would like to improve my deadlift, squat, etc... Currently my training consists of about 50 minutes of lifting monday, wednesday, friday and its mostly around the 5/6 rep range. I was wondering if it is possible to combine weightlifting and foundation one in the same day? Say lift weights in the after noon then foundation it night, or maybe even one after the other. Thanks.

[Daniel Shields]

If you are particularly concerned with your deadlift and squat, there is always the option of substituting them for the Single Leg Squat portion of the Foundation program. I know that it has been advised that if you haven't achieved mastery of the leg work, you stand to benefit more from doing the Foundation program until you do, and then switching to barbell based leg training.

 

If you want to keep in bench pressing and overhead pressing, it is trickier. I know that advice has been given in other threads. From a performance standpoint, you probably don't need to take on the added complexity of using supplementary barbell work if you haven't reached mastery in the Foundation program. If you just love lifting too much to give it up, you can probably do so without hurting yourself or derailing progress as long as you exercise caution and listen to the advice given on the forum.

 

I believe threads giving specific advice are in the Foundation 1 subforum. I assume from your posting this in the public forum you are looking for input to help you weigh whether or not to buy it. If you simply posted in the wrong forum, putting it in the private Foundation 1 subforum will allow people to give you specific answers.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

What are your goals?

[Brenno Ribeiro]

@ Daniel Shields: Thanks for the reply. I can actually already do single legged squats because they used to be a big part of my workout last year, but I don' think I can give up barbell work. I really like lifting, but I think I might try out foundation one as well. 

 

@FredInChina: I would say my number one goal is strength, in both realms of training however. I would like to be able to hold static positions like the levers, but I would also like to one day clean and press a lot of weight or squat a lot of weight. I definitely want to build some size as well, but I think as of right now I would rank strength as number one. 

[Joshua Slocum]

Hey guys I'm looking to purchase foundation one but i just have some basic questions regarding weightlifting and GST. I really want to do gymnastics style training but I also really like weightlifting and would like to improve my deadlift, squat, etc... Currently my training consists of about 50 minutes of lifting monday, wednesday, friday and its mostly around the 5/6 rep range. I was wondering if it is possible to combine weightlifting and foundation one in the same day? Say lift weights in the after noon then foundation it night, or maybe even one after the other. Thanks.

 

It'll be difficult to juggle the two, and you'll progress much slower than if you had simply focused on one or the other. GST has good carryover to weightlifting, but the reverse is not true, so my recommendation would be to do Foundation. If you feel Foundation is not working your legs enough, some weighted squat work would not be unreasonable. 

[Joshua Slocum]

@ Daniel Shields: Thanks for the reply. I can actually already do single legged squats because they used to be a big part of my workout last year, but I don' think I can give up barbell work. I really like lifting, but I think I might try out foundation one as well. 

 

Single leg squat is one element in the leg-strength series. Being able to do a single leg squat does not mean the leg-strength series won't be of use to you. 

[Philip Chubb]

Use GST for upper body. And Oly work for the lower body. It's the best of both. Your goal is strength? So use the best tools. Don't waste your time benching for strength when you will be overall more capable after doing GST. At the same time, don't think that Single Leg Squats will make you super strong in the legs. Use barbells for that.

[Brenno Ribeiro]

It'll be difficult to juggle the two, and you'll progress much slower than if you had simply focused on one or the other. GST has good carryover to weightlifting, but the reverse is not true, so my recommendation would be to do Foundation. If you feel Foundation is not working your legs enough, some weighted squat work would not be unreasonable. 

That's what I was worried about haha. I think what I'll do is try out foundation one along with the lifting and see how it goes, hopefully I'll be able to juggle the two. Thanks for all the replies  .

[Joshua Slocum]

That's what I was worried about haha. I think what I'll do is try out foundation one along with the lifting and see how it goes, hopefully I'll be able to juggle the two. Thanks for all the replies  .

 

If you're insistent on combining the two, my advice would be pretty much the same as Alex Chubb's: ditch the weights for any upper-body work, as it's just going to get in your way. 

[Blairbob]

 Yep, barbell for lower body work and BW lower body stuff for functionality/health. The exact opposite for upper body pretty much.

 

 Simple way to add in lower body work programming? 5-3-1. Simple to program and fast. Of course, you could add in the lower body assistance stuff if you want or use BW stuff as assistance.

 

 I did this pretty much for a good portion of 2010 though I did very little leg assistance after the main lower body lift. I was already doing sprints, vault or tumbling besides floor leg work ( jumps, bounding, single leg runs/jumps, etc) at the gym and generally I lifted after gymnastics or the day after I would work tumbling/vault. I wasn't working any Snatches or Clean&Jerks besides DB mostly for 5-10 reps (sort of conditioning).

 

 Mata, are you focused on just developing your Squat, be it Back and/or Front and Deadlift or are you also talking about the OlympicLifts as well?

[Brenno Ribeiro]

 Yep, barbell for lower body work and BW lower body stuff for functionality/health. The exact opposite for upper body pretty much.

 

 Simple way to add in lower body work programming? 5-3-1. Simple to program and fast. Of course, you could add in the lower body assistance stuff if you want or use BW stuff as assistance.

 

 I did this pretty much for a good portion of 2010 though I did very little leg assistance after the main lower body lift. I was already doing sprints, vault or tumbling besides floor leg work ( jumps, bounding, single leg runs/jumps, etc) at the gym and generally I lifted after gymnastics or the day after I would work tumbling/vault. I wasn't working any Snatches or Clean&Jerks besides DB mostly for 5-10 reps (sort of conditioning).

 

 Mata, are you focused on just developing your Squat, be it Back and/or Front and Deadlift or are you also talking about the OlympicLifts as well?

As of right now only squats and deadlifts. But I'm definitely looking to start the olympic lifts, I don't do them at the moment because I feel like I would definitely need some coaching to learn them properly.

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes, coaching is important. I have a friend who has O-lifted somewhat competitively for several years, and he is constantly working on his form. It is a never-ending process

 

If you decide to get the foundation stuff, which I think is a very good idea, I will help you learn how to balance the two over pm.

 

At first, it is a good idea to focus just on F1 for upper body, because it really is quite a bit of work. After a few months of experience, you might be ok doing the weights as well, but you'll see what I mean... it's a different world in Foundation.

[Brenno Ribeiro]

Yes, coaching is important. I have a friend who has O-lifted somewhat competitively for several years, and he is constantly working on his form. It is a never-ending process

 

If you decide to get the foundation stuff, which I think is a very good idea, I will help you learn how to balance the two over pm.

 

At first, it is a good idea to focus just on F1 for upper body, because it really is quite a bit of work. After a few months of experience, you might be ok doing the weights as well, but you'll see what I mean... it's a different world in Foundation.

I forgot to mention I ended up buying F1 as well haha. I haven't started yet however, right now I'm just planning how I'll structure my training and balance the 2.

[Joshua Naterman]

If you open up a thread over there, I can help out with that.

 

What I said stands though, I think that you should take a good 12 weeks and just do foundation for upper body. If you want to squat and deadlift, that's fine, but I can tell you from experience that it takes time to get used to the workload when you do it properly, and that integrating the weights has some pretty severe volume restrictions.

[Blairbob]

 Working with barbells will also drastically affect your appetite and wallet.

[Eric Kamhi]

Don't know if it's too late to pitch in but hey...

 

When I started Gymnastic Strength Training™ I was doing weighted resistance work.  I was never training for size but more for strength.  So my lifts were generally compound, multi body and functional.  Deadlifts, squats, cleans, snatches/swings (with kettlebels).  For what its worth, this is what I went through:

 

At first I wanted to keep weights in there and was throwing together a franken-workout.  Statics, FBEs, lifts, jumping rope, you name it.  Needless to say this proved to be fairly futile (maybe if you are a natural beast you will benefit from this but for me it was going nowhere).  So slowly but surely, my workouts phased out the barbells and kettlebels and became GST centric.

 

I am someone that has slow gains.  I progress very slowly.  But over the last year and a half I can say my strength gains are more than the four years or so of training with weights.  I am lighter, stronger, more flexible and overall got what I wanted out of training.  I wanted to train to become better at performing different movements in different athletic events.  I ski better, kitesurf better, climb better.. basically anything athletic I do, I do better now.

 

There is however one exception to this;  I've lost explosive strength because I have not trained it.  I also lost quick recovery because I don't do HIIT anymore.  If you perform an athletic task that benefits a lot from explosive strength, keeping those cleans/snatches/swings in there somewhere would be good.  

 

In terms of plain leg strength, I was never a huge squatter so I did not lose strength.  Training the SLS (with the leg curl "mobility" in there) is good enough strength wise for what I want out of my legs.  But since there is less leg work in volume, I did lose some sustained endurance.   For example, when kite surfing, my legs will get tired before any other body part (I wont even talk about biking). 

 

As the others pointed out, it's all bout your goals.  Strength is a very wide goal, GST and bodyweight training will definitely provide better overall BALANCED strength than weightlifting, but will lack in some aspects.  

 

What I find the most satisfying is focusing on the movement or the position rather than the exercise.  Also your gains in mobility, flexibility and the balanced way in which you develop your strength is very healthy.  You will be stronger in a lot of different positions and postures, you will develop strength which you can never develop otherwise.