I got the MN/PE2 blues...

Hello all.

 

I'm currently in week 10 of MN/PE2. I tested out of MN/PE1 quite easliy, but started at week 1 with MN/PE2. I'm 10 weeks in, and... man I just can't get this. It just seems like I've gotton a little stronger at doing a movement the wrong way. I just have had no luck in getting my legs up higher, or getting more compression, at ALL over these 10 weeks (and I've videoed myself alot to check this).

 

Back before F1, I spent 2 years working on BtGB straddle-L progressions, staying stuck at "straddle-l pb low" pretty much the whole time, not being able to get any progress there either. I obviously have issues with this movement (legs extended, hips abducted and flexing). Over these 10 weeks I've done the iM's religously (including doing stiff leg windmills as a warm up). In addition to that, I've really tried to trouble shoot what my problem is... is it a stiffness in the hamstrings? Or other muscles? And/or a weakness in my hip flexors? I've tried lots of additional stretching (pike stretches, hamstring stretches from Pavel's book, straddel pike stretches, hip flexor stretches), dove into the rabbit hole of mobilityWOD.com and tried lots of the hip related mobility things there. I also checked out a youtube link that someone posted on another thread in relation to someone asking about this movement, that video showed a guy doing a series of movements to strengthen his hip flexors... which I have tried to imitate (he did them in a full straddle-l position, I do them seated on the edge of a high stool). I've also done lots of compression holds as well (both straddle and straight leg). So I've explored and supplemented as much as I can in relation to the mobility/flexability and strength in this movement.

 

But, alas, all of this and still I have seen no development. As I'm getting close to the end of the cycle, I can see that I'll not be able to do mastery for this next week (I mean I can do the rep numbers, but obvisouly the form is not up to the standard in the official F1 video).

 

So... what should I do? Go back to week 1 and keep running a micro cycle of that until I can get my legs up to the standard height and then afterwards try to get the reps up to the standard? Or... what?

 

Below is a video from today's workout. I've got 5 reps from my first set, and then 5 reps from my last set. After watching the first set's video, I noticed that I'm not sitting up high enough, so in the last set you see me trying to sit up higher, but the legs are much lower. For what it's worth, my MN/PE1 was fine, I have no problem at all sitting up all the way and getting my legs to my chest for that one. If my legs are together I have a fair amount of strength and mobility, but when they are apart and straight, if goes to zero.

 

So, anyone, please, any advice about this would be helpful, I really don't know what to do here. Thanks!

 

 

I thought the first couple reps looked pretty reasonable. So, my guess is that it is more of a hip flexor strength issue in that range than anything else since the subsequent reps continued to lower while the straddle portion didn't significantly change (so the ROM should have been the same). I am sure somebody else with more knowledge, and who is maybe past this progression, will chime in though with some more details.

 

Do you have a video from week 1, or thereabouts in your cycle, so that we could compare?

 

I know we have talked about this particular progression a number of times and I haven't seen a clear answer about what to do for it here. There seems to be a huge jump between the two PE movements.

 

- Chris

It looks to me like you are trying to rotate your legs out at the same time as lifting them. You may just be throwing yourself off balance doing this. Have you tried doing them with legs slightly closer together, and have you experimented at all with legs-together v-ups?

 

Being able to do them with legs closed but not open would tell you where the weakness is, and you could then address that with supplementary work if you need it.

Get those toes pointed. You're not doing badly. There is some timing and practice involved, keep working at it.

I agree, it doesn't look as bad as you are trying to say.

Judging from the first set in comparison to the last one, your main issue is strength endurance.

ROM is still a little bit limited, as well as balance, but nothing really embarrassing.

 

Maybe you just repeat weeks 9-12 after your deload?

You're doing pretty well. Perhaps in the next few weeks  I'll embarrass myself with a video of what I am "capable" of, to give you a little comparison, just so you can see how bad it COULD be lol!

 

There is a steep learning curve with this one, just like with the H1 iM movements (for most people). You are using a whole bunch of new muscles, and it's a long list. Gluteal flexibility/mobility becomes important here, as does hamstrings. Active flexibility is what matters a lot here. Over time you will learn to allow these muscles to further lengthen under tension, and that will be what allows you to get a better ROM.

 

If you don't have the passive flexibility either, you should definitely work on that (which you have said you are doing, and that is good!), but only practicing these again and again is going to improve you.

 

You can also get into a seated straddle pike, place your hands on the ground on either side of your left leg around knee or thigh level, and perform reps of single leg lifts with locked knees. Then repeat with the other leg You might want to consider using this as a finisher for your workouts.

Excellent, thanks guys.

 

I will work on keeping my toes pointed.

 

In the video I posted, the first 5 reps are how I usually do them. The last five reps was from the last set and it was me trying specifically to sit up higher by keeping my legs lower and make the movement slower, as I thought that might be something I needed to work on.

 

It seems I can do MN/PE3 quite well, as Charm suggested to try those, and as I seem to be able to, I assume I should try the supplemental work.

 

What you mentioned Joshua, about leg lifts with hands on either side of the leg, I'll try that. I was doing that same exercise as a finisher, but with my hands together in the middle (in the classic pike compression hold) and lifting the legs together for sets of 10, and holding the last rep for 10 seconds. I'll try as you say, with hands astride each leg, doign them seperately.

 

As for the flexability to supplement with, I'm still confused as to what exactly would be the most benecificail... good morning style hamstring stretches, straddle pike stretches, one of the dozens of different mobilities for hips over at mobilityWOD.com?

 

I assume that the best course of action is to repeat another microcycle of weeks 9-12 on this after my deload week?

 

Below is a video of my very first set of these I ever did, way back 9 weeks ago for my week 1 workout of this element, to give an idea of where I started from:

 

something that's helped me properly execute Mn/PE1 and i'll be honest, after being excited about finishing todays workout, i tried busting out a few MN/PE2's and something that i have found that holds true on both PE's for me was to actively press the lower back, as if performing a hollow hold and then initiating the PE. 

 

this alone has provided me with more endurance and more quality throughout the reps. perhaps it can help you? 

KeilaniG said:

something that's helped me properly execute Mn/PE1 and i'll be honest, after being excited about finishing todays workout, i tried busting out a few MN/PE2's and something that i have found that holds true on both PE's for me was to actively press the lower back, as if performing a hollow hold and then initiating the PE. 

 

this alone has provided me with more endurance and more quality throughout the reps. perhaps it can help you? 

Similar here. Keeping PPT helped me get in the rhythm of this, after flailing like a fool for a week or two. Also another element to apply winning ass-tension.

Charm said:

Similar here. Keeping PPT helped me get in the rhythm of this, after flailing like a fool for a week or two. Also another element to apply winning ass-tension.

do a manna on dat ass, thats an ass-tate.(8)

KeilaniG said:

something that's helped me properly execute Mn/PE1 and i'll be honest, after being excited about finishing todays workout, i tried busting out a few MN/PE2's and something that i have found that holds true on both PE's for me was to actively press the lower back, as if performing a hollow hold and then initiating the PE. 

 

this alone has provided me with more endurance and more quality throughout the reps. perhaps it can help you? 

Excellent tip, tried it this morning and it gave me much more control over things 

HamdiC said:

... The last five reps was from the last set and it was me trying specifically to sit up higher by keeping my legs lower ...

 

This is incorrect.  Strive to elevate the legs and torso as equally as possible.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Excellent tip. It's funny I had just watched a mobilityWOD video where Kstar said that same thing; i.e. (I'm paraphrasing) activation of core first, prior to a hip flexation movement, makes it much stronger and increases the mobility.

I'm starting to see now how so many of these moves in GST is about activating a series of muscles in a particular sequence, a certain order, as opposed to just brute force all at once. And knowing which muscles in what order is not always intuitive.

I'll try this tomorrow when I hit MN/PE2 again and report back.

Thanks coach, that clears up a lot for me!

Activation is suppose to be instinctive, one reason people see kids adapt so fast is that they are not to far removed from moving instinctively. You're remembering how to move properly.

I gave it a try today, activating my abs and doing PPT before lifting up, and it did seem to overall bring so much more tightness and control to the movement. But, as expected, since I'm doing it differently now, my muscle enduance went way down. So, I'm sure I'll be doing another micro cycle of this, but I do think it's progressing, albeit slowly.

What you say makes sense Nic, I guess part of it is habit of a lifetime of bad movement, bad mobility, so it's about peeling those layer back part by part. I've always been really weak and loose in my hips even though the strength in my abs was okay, so this movement really shores up those imbalances and i've got to use the effecient way to do it properly.

Thanks again all.

This is my current level of flexibility on this particular PE.

 

 

I thinkg I've to point to straight more my back because it is a little rounded. My legs on each training are better, but I do so much stretching and mobility on that area (hip flexors), because the're one of my weak links.

 

Patience and perseverance!

 

PS: I have to say that I have a structural "problem" on my coccyx bone. It is more protuberated as usual, like the beginning of a tail. Because of that, PE1 and PE2 of Manna it's difficult to me, every time I sit on the ground my sacrum it's not flat, it's protuberated and it does contact hardly with the floor and sometimes I lost my balance and I get hurt. 

Yes, your back is a little bit rounded, but overall, it is not too bad.

With the mobility and flexibility you say you are doing, it should come nicely soon.

 

Try to sit on a piece of 1" thick dense styrofoam in which you dig a hole for your "protuberated" coccyx bone - that should add a bit of comfort to your training.

That's a good modification, Fred!

My wife has a similar structure and she is able to do the tuck up okay using one of those rubber bottomed bath mats - also be sure to posteriorly tilt prior to the ascent.

 

- Chris

I don't want to make a new thread so I'll post my question here as it relates to a similar problem with MN/PE2.

 

I can do the full set of 5 x 15 with full control and good form to the limit of my ROM, but unfortunately that ROM is, on a scale of one to zombie, somewhere around fossil.

 

My question is, should I continue with PE2 5 x 15 until I have the pike flexibility of the athlete in the video? Or should I move to the next progression.  (I am also undertaking Kit Laughlin's "Stretching & Flexibility" course twice a week to augment my pathetic ROM)

Primate said:

I don't want to make a new thread so I'll post my question here as it relates to a similar problem with MN/PE2.

 

I can do the full set of 5 x 15 with full control and good form to the limit of my ROM, but unfortunately that ROM is, on a scale of one to zombie, somewhere around fossil.

 

My question is, should I continue with PE2 5 x 15 until I have the pike flexibility of the athlete in the video? Or should I move to the next progression.  (I am also undertaking Kit Laughlin's "Stretching & Flexibility" course twice a week to augment my pathetic ROM)

how can you have good form yet in ROM is lacking? maybe if you filmed it, i could understand where you're coming from xD 

Valid point Keilani,

                            I meant that I can successfully raise my legs and torso simultaneously, with a straight back and straight legs, folding at the hips, slowly and under full control.  Ideally, with good pike flexibility I would be able to raise this to a full V, however due to my very limited pike flexibility, i can barely attain a 90 degree angle between my torso and legs.  Therefore my question is, if I can do 5 x 15 reps to this ROM without too much strain, should I move on to the next exercise, which also comes with more agressive mobility exercises to try to improve my pike limitation?

Primate said:

Valid point Keilani,

                            I meant that I can successfully raise my legs and torso simultaneously, with a straight back and straight legs, folding at the hips, slowly and under full control.  Ideally, with good pike flexibility I would be able to raise this to a full V, however due to my very limited pike flexibility, i can barely attain a 90 degree angle between my torso and legs.  Therefore my question is, if I can do 5 x 15 reps to this ROM without too much strain, should I move on to the next exercise, which also comes with more agressive mobility exercises to try to improve my pike limitation?

 

I had/have the same problem as you - see this thread where coach answered on what to do.

Cannister said:

I had/have the same problem as you - see this thread where coach answered on what to do.

what Cannister said^^^