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Guest SuperBru

SLS

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Daniel Burnham

Yea. My foray into lifting before gymnastics has left me with quite a bit of leg strength and power. It also makes front lever difficult from the bigger legs. My upper body is catching up though :). Full planche is within my grasp.

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Guest SuperBru

Interesting article on SLS I must say. I still can't wrap my head around why SLS increased my BB squat so effectively. Hearing stories of gymnasts squatting 365LB and deadlifting 400LB seems unrealistic. But it happens. If anyone could explain to me why SLS are able to increase BB squats I will be very grateful:)     

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Daniel Burnham

Who says it is the sls by itself that increases back squat. Sls is good for legs but there are a lot of other exercises for other muscles in the posterior chain.

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Guest SuperBru

Who says it is the sls by itself that increases back squat. Sls is good for legs but there are a lot of other exercises for other muscles in the posterior chain.

That is true. I was basing it on my situation though. I don't train for SLS just do them in my spare time for fun. I don't use weights at all only bodyweight exercises. At the moment the only leg exercise I use consistently is hawaiian squats. My BB squat has increased by 9kg. Not bad for never lifting a single weight.

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Guest SuperBru

For all you peeps really interested in SLS this will be an eye opener. Apparently I was wrong. Previously I thought that a SLS is supporting 87% of your bodyweight. I have recently found out that it is actually supporting 93.3% of your bodyweight. Check out this forum:

 

http://parkour.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=3558.0 

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Daniel Burnham

Personally I don't really see the point of trying to find an equivalence between two pretty dissimilar exercises.  People do this a lot with planche and bench press.  The only one I've really seen that is actually an ok approximation is OAC to weighted chins and even then there are differences.  SLS introduces things that barbell squat doesn't like greater ankle mobility and balance.  

 

In true gymnastic form, it requires you to master the skill more than just squat down and lift.  Now I realize there is a lot of technique in perfecting a squat, but it just isn't as hard to coordinate as a SLS.  Likewise back squats load the body in a way that cannot be done by bodyweight.  

 

If your goal is to back squat then you should probably include some.  Personally have mostly given them up due to lack of time and energy.  Im already spending around 3 hours in the gym, I cant afford to go to another one and try to squat as well.  For gymnasts squats are probably not necessary, at least for most of the population, for someone wanting to squat they are.

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Daniel Burnham

Id also like to comment that if you aren't already trained in the squats increasing your SLS would definitely make your barbell squat go up.  Its extra raw strength that you can use.  Just know that the brain learns to make any repeated movement pattern as efficient as it can.  This is why we get quick gains the beginning.  So there is a huge difference that SLS carry over would have on someone who hasn't done squats and someone who has trained them a lot.

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Guest SuperBru

Id also like to comment that if you aren't already trained in the squats increasing your SLS would definitely make your barbell squat go up.  Its extra raw strength that you can use.  Just know that the brain learns to make any repeated movement pattern efficiently as it can.  This is why we get quick gains the beginning.  So there is a huge difference that SLS carry over would have on someone who hasn't done squats and someone who has trained them a lot.

I agree 100%. Progressive overload is the name of the game.

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Guest SuperBru

Got some great news everybody. I was so pumped up from being able to a BW BB squat that I attempted to go higher. This time my dad climbed on my back and he weighs 74kg. Once again success, I squatted without any problems. In a matter of fact it was so easy that I could have gone for plenty reps. That's a BW(64kg)+10kg squat straight up. 20kg up from my last PR of 55kg. This of course was not the result of SLS on their own but Arch body rocks and L-sits.  

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Christian Nogueira

In true gymnastic form, it requires you to master the skill more than just squat down and lift.  Now I realize there is a lot of technique in perfecting a squat, but it just isn't as hard to coordinate as a SLS.  Likewise back squats load the body in a way that cannot be done by bodyweight.  

 

If your goal is to back squat then you should probably include some.  Personally have mostly given them up due to lack of time and energy.  Im already spending around 3 hours in the gym, I cant afford to go to another one and try to squat as well.  For gymnasts squats are probably not necessary, at least for most of the population, for someone wanting to squat they are.

I think someone mentioned in a post somewhere that there are some top gymnastics coaches who do use the back squat and other BB exercises, while others do not. I maybe wrong here but I suspect that the main point of basic strength exercises for legs in gymnastics is to prepare the legs for plyometric training and acrobatics, not to increase maximal strength to weightlifter levels (still, you can get plenty strong).

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Connor Davies

I've heard people say that the limiting factor in the barbell squat is actually core strength.  If this is the case it's no wonder gymnasts can hit (relatively) high squats the first time they try them.  Remember, you're always developing more strength than you actually demonstrate.  I got 10 rep pistols by never going over 4 pistols in my workout.  There's probably also more carryover from pistols to front squat, as the pistols is almost entirely quad dominant.  In my own experience I'm finding a significant lack of VMO activation during a pistol, as well as posterior chain work obviously.

 

ANY squat will make your squat go up.  Compare the effort of high rep two leg squats before and after you learn pistols.  In my own experience, when I first started to pistol I could only do them with shoes on (wider base of support an slight heel elevation), but once I built up a solid number of reps I found I could do them barefoot.  I also added at least 20kg to my pistol the first time I tried, and only stopped there because I ran out of weight.

 

I still doubt I could squat heavy the first time I tried, because pistols just don't offer enough resistance or hit enough leg muscles.  They're a fantastic tool, but there's more to leg training, way more than just one exercise.  Imagine if you did only one pulling or pushing exercise...

 

As for Ross doing a 500lb or more deadlift, on his blog he mentioned one of his training goals at the moment is the 600lb deadlift, so it is in fact something he's actively working towards.

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Philip Chubb

Where did you find gymnast who could squat a lot the first time? I have seen this with deadlifting but never squatting.

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Lucas Serur

Got some great news everybody. I was so pumped up from being able to a BW BB squat that I attempted to go higher. This time my dad climbed on my back and he weighs 74kg. Once again success, I squatted without any problems. In a matter of fact it was so easy that I could have gone for plenty reps. That's a BW(64kg)+10kg squat straight up. 20kg up from my last PR of 55kg. This of course was not the result of SLS on their own but Arch body rocks and L-sits.  

Squatting people is not the same as squatting barbells. People usually hug you from behind and distribute the load across the back, which is the lever arm. Barbells will apply force only at the end of the lever arm, creating more torque. Not to say that there probably is more neuromuscular activation squatting people than barbells, but that's another story.

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Tyler Gibson

You guys are overthinking this. There is one way to know how much you back squat, which is to back squat. There is one way to know how proficient you are at SLS, which is to perform them. Train whatever skill you are interested in mastering and you won't have to ask yourself if there is carryover, or how good you will be at one or the other.

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Guest SuperBru

Squatting people is not the same as squatting barbells. People usually hug you from behind and distribute the load across the back, which is the lever arm. Barbells will apply force only at the end of the lever arm, creating more torque. Not to say that there probably is more neuromuscular activation squatting people than barbells, but that's another story.

You've got a good point. However weight is weight. If I had access to weights I would have used them. I can guarantee the same results will occur. When I save up enough money I shall purchase a set of barbells in the future.

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Guest SuperBru

You guys are overthinking this. There is one way to know how much you back squat, which is to back squat. There is one way to know how proficient you are at SLS, which is to perform them. Train whatever skill you are interested in mastering and you won't have to ask yourself if there is carryover, or how good you will be at one or the other.

True, however I'm a curious person and carryover strength is something that interests me. We're not really over thinking just discussing numerous possibilities.     

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Jon Douglas

You guys are overthinking this. There is one way to know how much you back squat, which is to back squat. There is one way to know how proficient you are at SLS, which is to perform them. Train whatever skill you are interested in mastering and you won't have to ask yourself if there is carryover, or how good you will be at one or the other.

Not really, I have no interest in building a squat for the sake of lifting big numbers, so this is purely a hypothetical for me, I'm just hoping my different viewpoint and thought process will  contribute to the discussion.

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Brian Li

I don't think pistol squats carryover much to back squats at all. Of course there will be some carryover especially if you're new to squatting, but it's not much. 

 

When I could do over 10 reps of ATG pistols with excellent form easily on each leg, I could barely parallel back squat 135 lbs for 2 reps at the body weight of around 120 lbs the first time I tried.

 

I prefer barbells for squats than body weight leg stuff and agree that barbell and weights are superior for overall leg strength.

 

For the people who say that pistols work the quads more, have you tried keeping your knee behind your toes when doing them? I found them able to recruit the glutes decently doing it that way.

 

There is also a very hard body weight squat exercise called the shrimp squat, but that one works mainly the quads than the posterior chain and thus not that useful.

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Brian Li

You've got a good point. However weight is weight. If I had access to weights I would have used them. I can guarantee the same results will occur. When I save up enough money I shall purchase a set of barbells in the future.

More torque means there is more resistance even though the weight is the same. So it is not guaranteed that you can squat the same weight with barbells.

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Guest SuperBru

Hey guys this is my last post on this topic so please don't get annoyed. I have come up with a reasonable conclusion to SLS. Let's say you weigh 80kg/176.37LB and are able to do a SLS on your right leg. That means you are squatting half of your bodyweight. When you are able to do a SLS on each leg you are supporting your entire bodyweight. So that immediately translates to a BB BW squat. Now my lower back isn't strong but I had the leg power to squat 74kg at a BW of 62kg. I weighed myself today and realised I didn't weigh 64kg. So anybody who is curious and can do SLS on each leg try a BW BB squat and post your results.

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Jono

About a year ago I decided to add barbell squats into my routine. When I first did a SLS, I could squat around 90kg @ 70kg. But I probably could have done a SLS WAY BEFORE squatting 90kg, I just never tried.

 

When my max was 96kg, I could even do about 3 SLS's with 20kg added. So, it does seem that a SLS is approx. a BW squat.

 

SLS requires good ankle mobility though. A few years ago I broke my right ankle doing long jump on a field (very dumb, I know), and my ROM has never been the same since. Now I can only do a SLS with my left leg. With my right, the knee has a tendency to cave in because of how the bone in my right ankle has "set", not because of a weakness per say.

 

SLS is also more quad dominant that a traditional back squat. I would say that a front squat would carry over more to a SLS.

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Connor Davies

To the people that say that questioning/arguing carryover strength is just mental masturbation, I have to respond with, Isn't carryover strength the whole point?  Who wants to get really strong at something that's totally useless an non applicable to ANYTHING in real life?

 

ALL strength training is about carryover strength......

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Christian Nogueira

To the people that say that questioning/arguing carryover strength is just mental masturbation, I have to respond with, Isn't carryover strength the whole point?  Who wants to get really strong at something that's totally useless an non applicable to ANYTHING in real life?

 

ALL strength training is about carryover strength......

I think you are correct. Generally aplicable strength is the point. However, I doubt that you can make calculations like saying a SLS is equivalent to a % of bodyweight back squat or for example that straddle planch is equal to a x bench press, and have these calculations apply to all athletes and at all stages of their training. At best you can make assumptions about what you can do, and the easier way to prove these assumptions is to actually try it out. I don't think anyone doubts the effectiveness of training.

 

I had a professor that said that for you to say that you can/know how to something you have to actually do it. Till you've actually done it, you're just assuming :)

 

To provide a counter example for all the SLS. I could do SLS on my right leg and a ugly one on my left leg before when I smoked and did 0 exercise about a year ago, with virtually no training. Only fairly recently did I break BW on back squat (albeit I'm not focusing on back squat, or doing any sort of linear progression with weights).

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Jon Douglas

I think you are correct. Generally aplicable strength is the point. However, I doubt that you can make calculations like saying a SLS is equivalent to a % of bodyweight back squat or for example that straddle planch is equal to a x bench press, and have these calculations apply to all athletes and at all stages of their training. At best you can make assumptions about what you can do, and the easier way to prove these assumptions is to actually try it out. I don't think anyone doubts the effectiveness of training.

 

I had a professor that said that for you to say that you can/know how to something you have to actually do it. Till you've actually done it, you're just assuming :)

Neatly summarises my viewpoint too.

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