Glut-4 translocation and isometrics?

[Raidho]

I've been trying to find any study on the effects of isometric training (static holds) regarding non-insulin mediated glut-4 translocation via exercise. No luck so far.

Does static holds have the same effect as regular weighttraining on glucose uptake?

Joshua?

[Klaudius Petrulis]

I know of only one person who speaks the kind of language that you speak: Keifer from Dangerously Hardcore.

[Raidho]

That is correct Klaudius, it´s from Kiefer and Dangerously Hardcore that I have learned about glut-4 and 12 translocation from exercise, and it´s effects on specific tissue (skeletal muscle) glucose uptake. 

I shoot a question regarding this over at the forum on DH, but they don´t seem to know either. I'm hoping the question gets through to Kiefer or someone with knowledge of this subject.

I believe that by following Kiefers protocol you get the most optimal calorie partitioning for body recomposition. But he is a bodybuilder, so naturally he uses weighttraining (and also HIIT, but that´s for other reasons than glut 4 translocation) as his tool. 

I wonder if isometric holds has the same effect. If it does, that would be so freaking awesome.

[Joshua Naterman]

Edit: You mean exercise-induced GLUT4 transport, I think, and not "non-iinsulin mediated GLUT4." My misinterpretation

 

 We don't even know exactly how GLUT-4 gets transported, or why (for example) diabetes reduces GLUT-4 translocation to the membrane.

 

Not quite sure how important GLUT-12 is, i know it seems to help in diabetic mice and seems to be a part of an insulin-dependent glucose uptake mechanism, but the basics don't change... Work out, eat carbs, eat protein, eat your fats, eat them all together. Don't go low carb, particularly around the workout.

[Joshua Naterman]

Static holds are less energy intensive than concentrics for a given external load (all other factors and joint angles being equal), so if the loads are identical then no, statics will not make as much of an impact from an energetic standpoint because they burn less sugar for a given load, and that means you need to take IN less sugar, which means you don't need as many transporters.

 

From a practical GST standpoint, we aren't working statics (or dynamics) to failure because that introduces bad habits, and that is going to cause a lesser effect (increase in GLUT4 membrane concentration) vs training to failure (or very close).

 

From a practical recomposition standpoint, I just don't think this is a big deal. Frequency of exercise is more important than 70% intensity vs. 88% intensity (for example), though both matter, and for maximum effect you need to be working full body, 3x per week.

 

This is hypothetical, I mean there WILL be a response, but in body recomp what you're looking for is a raw increase in GLUT4 membrane concentration.

 

Weight training is used because it is what Kiefer knows. It's a relatively low-skill way to recruit a high percentage of lots of muscle mass.

You can do the same thing with Gymnastic Strength Training™.

[Joshua Naterman]

In short, the major factor is creating a frequent demand for large-scale sugar intake at the cellular level.

 

Insulin plays a large role in this translocation, which is probably why low-carb/high fat diets actually decrease insulin sensitivity. You need your carbs, especially around the workout, but just in general you need them for good health.

[Joshua Naterman]

Here are some slides from Harvard Medical School. They are directly related to this conversation.

 

http://outreach.mcb.harvard.edu/downloads/Fall09/LaurieGoodyear.pdf

 

You'll notice that diabetics achieve normal GLUT4 translocation during exercise ONLY, but that insulin basically has no effect on them in this regard. For this population, especially, but also for EVERYONE in general, the more exercise you do (so long as you don't do so much that you injure yourself, or develop anorexia athletica) the better off you are.

[Raidho]

Thanks Joshua for an awesome and detailed answer! I think I'll continue with F1 and add some weighttraining after in order to maximize glucose uptake in skeletal muscle post-workout. I'm trying to lose some fat and retain/gain musclemass while increasing my proficiency in gymnastic skills like planche, levers, handstand and manna. I'm not afraid of carbs post-workout, but I don't want to overdo them if my exercise-choice doesn't call for it.

It's funny that static holds aren't as energetically demanding as weighttraining, since I feel they oftentimes are much harder then lifting weights. Maybe it's a matter of being used to a certain kind of exercise?

[Joshua Naterman]

I don't think you need the weight training for that, but if you choose to do so I suggest following this guideline:

 

Do not do more than 20% of total training volume as weight training. If you exceed this, you will definitely see negative results in terms of recovery and F1/H1 progress.

 

I would also aim for slow fat loss, because this is where you will be able to retain all your muscle mass, which is the real key to successful recomposition.

[Raidho]

I don't think you need the weight training for that, but if you choose to do so I suggest following this guideline:

Do not do more than 20% of total training volume as weight training. If you exceed this, you will definitely see negative results in terms of recovery and F1/H1 progress.

Awesome! This is EXACTLY the type of advice I've been looking for!

Any idea of what intensity and rep-range those 20% would consist of?

Thanks again Joshua, you're really making my month! I'm about to go on a vacation and since I love training, I'm gonna spend some time in the gym, although I don't want to spend the entire day in the gym, it is after all a vacation. Also my girlfriend wouldn't like it very much

[Klaudius Petrulis]

Raidho, not to sound negative or anything, but I think you may be overthinking it a tad.  Are you prepping for a contest or competition?

[Joshua Naterman]

Awesome! This is EXACTLY the type of advice I've been looking for!

Any idea of what intensity and rep-range those 20% would consist of?

Thanks again Joshua, you're really making my month! I'm about to go on a vacation and since I love training, I'm gonna spend some time in the gym, although I don't want to spend the entire day in the gym, it is after all a vacation. Also my girlfriend wouldn't like it very much

We are not getting into that kind of advice, I am sorry. We discuss the specifics of Foundation work, but discussions of alternate training methods cause too much confusion, especially when someone like me is involved, because somehow someone gets the idea that this must be the new best way to go.

 

I think you are misunderstanding just about everything I said. You do not need the weights, but if you CHOOSE to do so I am suggesting a hard limit. How you implement this will have to be your decision.

 

If your mind is focused on the weights, you have missed the point I wanted to make, which was that I'm not advising that you go hit the weights, simply giving you a guideline so that you don't go nuts and get hurt or overtrain.

 

Your decisions regarding what you do in the weight room are going to have to be up to you. I don't want to make recommendations beyond what has been posted already. Doing so will cause more problems than it solves.

[Raidho]

Edit:

Klaudius: Well, nutrition is one of my biggest interests, especially related to performance, body recomp and fat loss.

I'm trying to find a way that is optimal for me, and still practical for my life situation.

Also I'm an actor, and in about six months I'm gonna play the role of a former convict in a Thailand prison. Seven years of imprisonment has left my character rather slim. But I don't want to go all Christian Bale in the Machinist and loose al my muscle mass, just reach as low body fat percentage as possible. I don't have a massive amount of muscle mass to begin with, so after a long cut with maximum muscle mass retention, I think I'd hit a look that would be realistic for someone who just got out from seven years of prison (hell) in Thailand.

So long story short, I'm looking to combine several passions, gymnastic training, and my needs as an actor.

Joshua:

I understand what you mean. I'm only starting to scratch on the surface of this vast area of science, and am considering taking a basic course in biochemistry and nutrition to really get an understanding of how things fit together. Regarding what you said about the weights, what I was so glad about is the limit of 20% of total work volume that you recommended. I don't want to risk overtraining, which I, by experience, are prone to. Not true

overtraining the way elite athletes can run into, but still.

Without your recommendation of maximum 20% of work volume consisting of weighttraining, I would have learned this the hard way through trial and error, and probably a lot of frustration,

DOMS, lack of progress and a bit of despair.

Now I'll focus on F1, and H1 when I've bought it, and when I feel fresh, a few sets

of compound movements.

[George Vere]

I do believe you're overthinking things. Though, it's the sort of thing I've been guilty of too. I know this stuff is interesting, but will it really help you with training?

 

On the note of biochemistry,  I've been reading "The Chemistry of Life" by Steven Rose the past few weeks. I'm finding it's a great intro to biochemistry (the field I want to go in to).

[Raidho]

Thanks Hercules, I'll look into that book!

[Keilani Gutierrez]

 

 

I would also aim for slow fat loss, because this is where you will be able to retain all your muscle mass, which is the real key to successful recomposition.

this has been my mission as of late. I'm gonna be deep forum diving for the next couple of weeks in the nutrition forum to find posts covering this topic and consolidating it in a file for my personal use. I packed on 12lbs since starting F1 but some of it is fat because of my not so on-time eating habits and late night snacks. 

 

if I can get this down pack, i KNOW like I KNOW that my progress with the F1 programming will sky rocket.