So, this is gymnastics

red1392 said:

Sir, (with all due respect) keep in mind that you are asking about a Gymnastic Bodies product on the Gymnastic Bodies forum, run by none other than the author of the product itself. No one is going to speak ill of it here, and talk up a competing product released by a Gymnastic Bodies "deserter" of sorts.

From what I've heard of F1 (and HS1) from people I know that have it though (still saving up for it), it is a very high quality product - HD videos, takes you by the hand, every step of the way to an impressive level of strength. If you want to dive straight into training, not have to think about how to train or what to train - F1 is the way to go.

I own Overcoming Gravity and while I've learnt a lot from it, I will say I haven't quite always been able to apply it as well as I'd like in theory. Maybe I'm doing things wrong. I'll have to go back and check and reassess my program. You may well find yourself in the same position. If you're okay with that - there's nothing wrong with Overcoming Gravity. Steven Low is also very available on a number of forums to ask questions to directly if you have issues. But that's the main difference between the two - with OG, you may not get it right the first or second time around and find yourself... stuck every now and then and not quite understand why.

OG attempts to teach you how to design a strength program, using bodyweight/gymnastics exercises. F1 gives you a high standard Gymnastic Strength Training™ program to follow to the tee. So pick whichever one you feel suits your needs best.

If you want more reviews of both programs, perhaps try asking around other forums as well for the most honest feedback.

So by your own admission OG is a program that will leave you wondering why you aren't progressing?

Like I said. I've read both. I also keep up with Steven low on his other forums including crossfit and reddit. I read a lot about this stuff daily to try and be kept on the loop. This is the best bodyweight strength community period and one of if not the best total fitness resources on the Internet. And a lot of this stems from coach's products. I am not paid by him though I have met him and would not support a product I feel is inferior. I go with the best available to me. This is the best available. OG is an ok read and josh summed it up nicely. He actually is borrowing my copy. There is very little in OG in couldn't summize from resources available for free on the Internet and a some of his stuff is unproven on a population.

On the other hand coach's stuff is incredible and leaps and bounds beyond anything else I've seen published to date and I've seen and heard quite a bit including stregth progressions used by NCAA athletes and previous Olympians.

Daniel Burnham said:

So by your own admission OG is a program that will leave you wondering why you aren't progressing?

Like I said. I've read both. I also keep up with Steven low on his other forums including crossfit and reddit. I read a lot about this stuff daily to try and be kept on the loop. This is the best bodyweight strength community period and one of if not the best total fitness resources on the Internet. And a lot of this stems from coach's products. I am not paid by him though I have met him and would not support a product I feel is inferior. I go with the best available to me. This is the best available. OG is an ok read and josh summed it up nicely. He actually is borrowing my copy. There is very little in OG in couldn't summize from resources available for free on the Internet and a some of his stuff is unproven on a population.

On the other hand coach's stuff is incredible and leaps and bounds beyond anything else I've seen published to date and I've seen and heard quite a bit including stregth progressions used by NCAA athletes and previous Olympians.

May. May leave you wondering. That may well just be me though, right? A lot of people on reddit sing praise for it and claim to have made good progress on it. It depends on how well you manage to apply it. OG isn't a program, it's a book that is meant to teach you how to program, for whatever you want to train. Some people may prefer it that way. F1 is a standard routine laid out for you, by a national level coach, to follow without question, in a one size fits all kinda deal. I never said anything bad about it. I'm just explaining what each product is. OP seems to be under the impression that they're similar products when they're nothing alike.

All I'm saying is, if OP wants a well rounded opinion before spending his money (which is what it seems he is looking for) - he should ask around. Of course everybody on the GB forum is going to recommend the GB product before anything else. If anyone had anything at all negative to say about the GB products (not saying there is), they sure as hell wouldn't say it here - that would be disrespectful to Coach. No one ever complained about the original book around here did they? They went and did it on Amazon instead.

If money is a problem, and OP is just testing out bodyweight/Gymnastic Strength Training™, I'd recommend neither OG nor F1. I'd recommend Killroy + Low's free articles on eatmoveimprove + strengthproject videos to check for form. That's more than enough to give him a taste. Besides - that's along the lines of what a lot of people did for years before F1 came out anyway.

Also, if OP's goal is hypertrophy - there is not a lot he can't achieve upper body aesthetics-wise, from just doing proper ROM rows and pullups -> muscleups & dips -> handstand pushups. For legs, he definitely doesn't want to follow a single leg squat routine, he wants to find a barbell. If he's not after things like planche and manna, why go through a bunch of preliminary steps that aren't going to promote a whole lot of hypertrophy, and pay $75 to do it?

red1392 said:

May. May leave you wondering. That may well just be me though, right? A lot of people on reddit sing praise for it and claim to have made good progress on it. It depends on how well you manage to apply it. OG isn't a program, it's a book that is meant to teach you how to program, for whatever you want to train. Some people may prefer it that way. F1 is a standard routine laid out for you, by a national level coach, to follow without question, in a one size fits all kinda deal. I never said anything bad about it. I'm just explaining what each product is. OP seems to be under the impression that they're similar products when they're nothing alike.

That's a bit much. Choosing to follow a *proven* (I really don't think that can be overstated) program isn't the same as being given an impersonal blanket fix or a brainwashing.

Glance in the F1 forum, there's questioning aplenty, and there's solid answers and reasoning for each one. We're not endorsing it out of loyalty to Coach (well, solely, but you know how fickle people are in Internet-land too); we've built a trust in Coach because his products are first rate.

Back on topic;

My personal opinion and approach is get strong first; you are then in a position to manipulate your weight and size more easily by messing with volume and diet (which is more forgiving when you are capable of serious work). Foundation will make you strong; not the only way, but a more or less inevitable way.

I've never been a track athlete nor been anywhere near a skinny guy. Maybe you could list your honest and bare-bones goals in order of priority, work out a time frame, and see what sort of approach you can put together (we'll probably even help, if you ask for it ).

I've heard a lot of coaches that I respect saying there's not such thing as a one size fits all program, and if you want the information to create your own custom tailored approach, overcoming gravity will give you a great starting point.  However, all these coaches that value the personal approach, well, they personally design programs for paying clients.  They work hands on, giving pretty much daily feedback.

It's almost impossible to be as good a personal trainer for yourself as a professional can be.  Coach's program works.  For everyone.  It might not be the best/fastest way for you to train GST, build muscle ect.. But unless you have a real coach, who knows what he's doing, training you in one-on-one sessions, your probably not going to be doing the best you can anyway.  Certainly not if you're a beginner with no idea what you're doing.

If you're interested in a bit more theory, or want to understand why coach has done things the way he's done them, sure, overcoming gravity is a solid resource.  But if you just want to get stronger and more athletic, I'd go with Foundation 1 every time.

red1392 said:

Also, if OP's goal is hypertrophy - there is not a lot he can't achieve upper body aesthetics-wise, from just doing proper ROM rows and pullups -> muscleups & dips -> handstand pushups. For legs, he definitely doesn't want to follow a single leg squat routine, he wants to find a barbell. If he's not after things like planche and manna, why go through a bunch of preliminary steps that aren't going to promote a whole lot of hypertrophy, and pay $75 to do it?

This.

edit: here's a cool quote from one of the well known guys on this board...

"If you're only training to look good, then how athletic you are is of no importance. However, if you'd like to look good and be athletically functional, then you need more than just size and strength. Strength without balance, agility, coordination and explosiveness is strength that's athletically unusable."

I will reiterate that I am not looking for some new training program that will make me look better than the guys using bodybuilding style weightlifting. The static holds, strength gains, and mobility work all really interest me, but I do have an invested interest in hypertrophy as well.

I think F1 is something I really am interested in, and of course the reviews have been nothing but glowing. I think it comes down to, for me, if it is something that works with my schedule right now. If I decide to keep weight training, but only doing static hold training, is Foundation One still worth it? Ordinarily, I think I would say no, but the first day I tried back lever training, I think I may have injured my shoulder as has twinged occasionally since. I am therefore very wary of just following progressions I find on forums, and you have all told me F1 is a complete step-by-step safe program. It would be absolutely horrible for me if I injured my shoulder seriously and could not run track.

The 30 day money back guarantee also sweetens the spot for me, as I know if it turns out not to work I can get a refund (hopefully it is an honest guarantee)? However, I don't want to just buy it for a 'test run', with the knowledge that I might very well return it. I assume that was not the purpose of the guarantee.

Thank you for the comments guys, continuous input or even help with static positions (even a german hold is uncomfortable!) and staying safe is appreciated!

bwsaw said:

I will reiterate that I am not looking for some new training program that will make me look better than the guys using bodybuilding style weightlifting. The static holds, strength gains, and mobility work all really interest me, but I do have an invested interest in hypertrophy as well.

 

I think F1 is something I really am interested in, and of course the reviews have been nothing but glowing. I think it comes down to, for me, if it is something that works with my schedule right now. If I decide to keep weight training, but only doing static hold training, is Foundation One still worth it? Ordinarily, I think I would say no, but the first day I tried back lever training, I think I may have injured my shoulder as has twinged occasionally since. I am therefore very wary of just following progressions I find on forums, and you have all told me F1 is a complete step-by-step safe program. It would be absolutely horrible for me if I injured my shoulder seriously and could not run track.

 

The 30 day money back guarantee also sweetens the spot for me, as I know if it turns out not to work I can get a refund (hopefully it is an honest guarantee)? However, I don't want to just buy it for a 'test run', with the knowledge that I might very well return it. I assume that was not the purpose of the guarantee.

 

Thank you for the comments guys, continuous input or even help with static positions (even a german hold is uncomfortable!) and staying safe is appreciated!

Just a few points you may want to take into consideration:

- Foundation 1 is largely made up of dynamic movements; there are few static holds. It is designed to prepare you for later work on static holds (i.e. in Foundation 2 or 3 or 4). 

- Foundation 1 is intense enough that you will likely have to choose between Foundation 1 and weight training. Some people have had success with supplemental leg work (e.g. squats and deadlifts), but unless you have freakishly good recovery, you will be over-training if you do both F1 work and upper-body weight work. 

- Foundation 1 workouts take 20-45 minutes, depending on how many sets/reps are prescribed for the week. The recommended schedule for F1 is 3-5 workouts per week. 

- Another consideration is that Foundation 1 requires a set of rings and a set of stall bars. 

How far would a doorway pullup bar with an attached set of rings take me?

Another option is to use the gym I train for in weight lifting. They have the TRX suspension training system there - it seems like it could substitute decently for rings?

bwsaw said:

How far would a doorway pullup bar with an attached set of rings take me?

 

Another option is to use the gym I train for in weight lifting. They have the TRX suspension training system there - it seems like it could substitute decently for rings?

Doorway pullup bar with rings hanging off is perfectly fine. Or you can hang rings from something at your gym. If you have access to a gym with a lot of calisthenics equipment, you might be able to get away without having a dedicated set of stall bars. 

It seems like you have your head on straight in regards to this issue, but I'd expect nothing less from a track brother.

In regards to the mobility stuff: Foundations is meant to be a comprehensive training program. The "exercises" and "mobility" aren't meant to be separated. That said, the mobility stuff alone is worth the price of admission. 

From my a track and field perspective the hip opening done will do wonders for your hip flexors (which are almost always tight in track athletes). The shoulder and upper body mobility will help loosen up your upper body movement and allow.

I'm not promoting that you buy F1 at this point as I still question whether you're at the right time in your life for it. I just did want to let you know that the mobility stuff is great and would have T&F applications.

bwsaw said:

Another option is to use the gym I train for in weight lifting. They have the TRX suspension training system there - it seems like it could substitute decently for rings?

Only for a few exercises, even then I'd be wary.  Rings are a completely different animal. TRX was invented because they couldn't patent the rings.