Testosterone therapy for older guys (40)

[Michael Blythe]

I'm looking to get some opinions  from some guys that have tried or know of someone that has  had  testosterone replacement  therapy not illegal  steroids ? you cant watch tv without seeing a commercial ad for it . 

 

[Kevin Conley]

I am curious what people think of them, although I don't need them (and wont use them). I know plenty of people who use steroids and say they have no side effects when used properly.

[Klaudius Petrulis]

From what I've seen it looks effective.  I remember an old blog post on Robb Wolf's site about a guy that did an experiment with the stuff.  Here's the link: http://robbwolf.com/2011/11/02/paleo-and-testosterone/

 

If I had to choose between androgen replacement and steroids, I'd go with big pharma over big vinnie in the  planet fitness locker room.

[David Birchall]

I am 22 years old.  As a kid I was fat and had an addiction to sugar.  I was tired all the time and as I got older and tried to have intercourse, I had no interest and just couldn't do it.  I was miserable.  I had no libido and I could not work out why I was not like my friends.  I began weight training around 17 and got ripped and muscular to try and "make up" for my self-perceived failings at being a male.

 

13-21 were the worst years of my life and I was so embarrassed about my problem I never told anyone until I was 19.  What followed was two years of blood test after blood test all showing that I had low testosterone.  The doctors in the UK would not put me on TRT.  They just kept sending me for blood tests and scans.  They didn't care about the psychological implications of my condition.  It drove me insane and I just couldn't tell my long term girlfriend.  I would always make some excuse when it came to intercourse and eventually she finished me for good (and I still couldn't tell her!).  Self esteem shattered, I turned to drink.  I ruined my university degree, got a DUI, nearly died in a car crash, ended up in rehab miles away and even ended up homeless for a period.  Went from a straight A student with a problem to being homeless sitting talking to some crack-whore about my problem in a whole world of shit miles away from home.

 

Sorry I got carried away there with my story lol it riles me up I think when I start thinking about it all.  I'm on TRT now from the doctor.  I have tried the illegal route for a period too when the doctors were not giving me any due to "trying to start my own natural production" for the fourth failed attempt.

 

My mood, sleep, libido, quality of life, anxiety and a myriad of psychological implications are improved drastically when I am on TRT.  However in terms of training and body recomposition, my diet has been the biggest factor in improving this.  However normal hormone levels and its effect on my depression certainly had a part to play in terms of dietary adherence.  I believe the TRT is much better managed in the US however here in the UK, doctors believe it is "no big deal" to have ultra low testosterone for prolonged periods of time.  

 

As I proved, from my perspective, it WAS a big deal and I hope no human being ever has to go through what I went through.

 

Testosterone gel is the preferred method of delivery in the UK because it saves nurse's administration costs due to their time not being taken up on injections...  But testosterone gel sucks balls and doesn't work very well in my opinion.

 

I am currently waiting for an appointment to go back on injections with the proposition that I self administer.

 

I felt most stable when I was on 100mg of Sustanon once per week.  I was at the high end of normal range on bloodwork.  This was illegally obtained and the protocols are different in the UK due to trying to cut down on costs.  I was recommended to use 100mg/week intramuscularly by  endocrinologists on a trt forum and I believe it is the standard dosing protocol for the US.

 

Any questions about TRT, feel free to ask.

[Joshua Naterman]

Wow. Congratulations on doing so much better, sir!

[Samuli Jyrkinen]

Thanks for sharing your story dbirchall. 

 

I might consider taking testosterone therapy when I am pass my 50s(in 30 years!) because see no reasons not to. Till that the diet is everything.

[Michael Blythe]

Thank you for such a detailed response . I'm glad you got yourself back on track. No one wants to admit the have low test.

[seiyafan]

Have you tried any natural testosterone booster?

[Klaudius Petrulis]

Natural testosterone boosters to me may as well be placebos. If someone really has imbalanced testosterone some MACA or whatever will most likely not get them back on track.

[seiyafan]

My recommendation would be APE.

[Klaudius Petrulis]

APE looks like ZMA but with some Vitamin D. What makes it special?

[Blairbob]

 Besides getting the factors you can control dialed in, don't bother with natural t boosters. Androgel or injections are probably a lot safer than the legal prohormones and other steroids.

 

 the Natural boosters may help with sexual performance and some other health benefits, but thats about it. 

[Michael Blythe]

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/1953/Tip-560-Natural-Tips-To-Increase-Testosterone-To-Get-Leaner-and-Stronger.aspx

 here is a  article by poliquin on how to raise your levels. 

[Blairbob]

http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php?p=1051625&postcount=22

[seiyafan]

the Natural boosters may help with sexual performance and some other health benefits, but thats about it. 

 

It's one of the welcoming side effects. 

[Blairbob]

 Well, on the one hand at least they don't seem to decrease sexual performance as some steroids do. Barry Bond's gf/mistress commented that he had to use ****** and I've heard of this before from others.

 Screw that.

 I didn't try any pro hormones which are basically just steroids they haven't made illegal yet.

 Recovery wasn't really improved much. I have a friend who did say he started feeling a lot better when he was using Rhodiola recently but I do know for a fact he isn't sleeping enough. I wasn't necessarily sleeping enough at the same time either nor eating enough at times. Still, I don't think they helped me recover any better. TBH, I can't remember how much I was sleeping when I was using them in 2011.

[Michael Blythe]

Here is a new article from poliquin about DHEA and Testosterone

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/2003/Tip-580-Gain-Muscle-Lose-Fat-By-Raising-Testosterone-Tips-To-Take-You-Beyond-The-Basics.aspx

[Patrick McDonnell]

if you are interested, you will first need to make an appointment with a physician who will run a whole battery of blood work. In most cases, the costs of the blood work and appointment will cost you over $1,000 and it is not usually covered by insurance. There are well recognized disciplines who are really involved in T-therapy: endocrinologists and urologists; and then more controversial anti-aging doctors who specialize in hormone replacement therapy.  The real issue regardless of physician is the wide lab reference range for testosterone.

 

Normal testosterone for a 16 year old is much different than a 40 year old, so the reference ranges are extremely wide because age specific references are really experimental. If you are seeing conventional speciallists, they are going to look for lab values well below the reference ranges before they prescribe you T-gel; and even if they prescribe it, insurance companies will be reluctant to pay for it unless you can demosntrate real clinical symptoms. If you have a true clinical T-deficiency, then T-therapy will have a miraculous effect. The clinical symptoms are vague and subjective: weakness, fatigue, decreased libido--but these symptoms are pretty common among 40 plus year olds regardless of t-levels. But if you are really below normal or even borderline, t-therapy will increase strength, energy and libido.

 

The anti-aging doctors are more aggresive in prescribing and will basically try to get you in ranges that are on the high end of normal--meaning close to 16 year old range. It most definitely won't be covered by insurance. The problem with having relatively high levels of testosterone is that it has secondary side effects and many folks will start bleeding out the excess T-levels by manufacturing estrogen which will work as an antagonist to the t-levels; and you will generate t-binding hormones to dispose of the excesss testosterone. This is putting aside the increased risk of certain cancers like prostate cancer. The other problem with t-gel is that your body will stop making natural T, and you will need to be on T-therapy for long term. its a regular regieme that is more invasive than even conventional thyroid deficiency. And. again, it is very expensive and you need to be careful that females or kids in your house don't come in contact with the gel in any way. You will also need regular blood work, usually not covered by insurance, to monitor your T-levels and balance with competing antagonsitic hormones like estrogen.

 

In many cases, they have to give you an estrogen blocker, which is another expensive medication with side effects, like it will take out your libido. Clearly, big pharma is pushing t-therapy to family doctors, but it is not the kind of med program that one can prescribe and just let the patient go on their way. Given the link between T and prostate cancer, PSA levels need to be watched carefully and your prostate should be checked more frequently. If your program is not covered by insurance, then with exams, blood work, and medications, it is a 3-5k per year commitment for the rest of your life. And there are no real long term studies of the risk of prolonged T-therapy for folks that are still naturally making testosterone, but just at lower reference levels. Again, if you have a real bona fide T-deficiency diagnosed by an endocrinologist or urologist, insurance will pay for it, and you will feel real differences and see a real difference in your body composition. If you are looking at it as an anti-aging program, you should really act cautiously. Playing with your natural hormone levels has consequences both good and bad. The anti-ageing doctors are very aggresive, charge a lot, and are at the very cutting edge of some untested medicine. The promises are great and they are very aggresive marketers. Big pharma is pushing this "medical treatment" because the market is so huge. What 40-60 year old wouldn't want to feel like a teenager? And by all accounts, you will see dramatic and otherwise unattainable changes in your body composition, which is why T-gel (and hormone therapy in the form of anabolic steroids) is so popular as sports performance enhancers.

 

But, putting sports ethics aside from the use of PEDs, it is one thing for A-Rod taking risks with his bodies for millions of dollars and to prolong his career, it is another thing for a regular guy who just wants to feel and look better on the beach, but who is taking some of the same risks. Personally, and I am 47, I would like to see another ten years of long term studies, and well established age-specific lab studies, before I start playing with my hormone levels and cutting off my body's ability to make T naturally. As an aside, the cost issue is not as big a factor with celebrities and wealthy people which is why you are starting to see some of these 40-60 year olds looking so unnaturally young and fit. And they may be getting the frequent blood work and exams to avoid some of the adverse effects. Again, I would do some research and talk to some doctors that you trust. It is the proverbial fountain of youth; and those proverbs always have harsh lessons for those that partake of the fountain.

[Patrick McDonnell]

 Well, on the one hand at least they don't seem to decrease sexual performance as some steroids do. Barry Bond's gf/mistress commented that he had to use ****** and I've heard of this before from others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The sexual side effects are real and demonstrable. Bonds program was not a gym/back room program. It was a very sophisticated program where hormone levels were carefully monitored and screened. As a mentioned above, hormones are a bit like Newtonian physics and the Third Law. When certain levels are increased, the body will increase binding hormones and antagonistic hormones. The professional programs involved careful blood monitoring and a whole cocktail of hormones and steroids to address secondary effects. For example, Manny Ramirez was caught with HCG, which is a pregnancy related hormone for females but that signals a male's body to increase testosterone production naturally. External T and steroids often cause testicular atrophy because the testes no longer are making Testosterone--so athletes take HCG at the tail end of a steroid cycle to jump start the testes and relieve the atrophy. In the old back room body building gym days, these guys did not monitor blood levels or adjust for secondary effects so they generally had more profound and permanent effect on the testes and libido. But Bond was working with BALCO--not some gym rat peddling steroids from a foreign pharmacy. As I said in my prior post, screwing around with hormones is a full time commitment that may have lasting effects. The big pharma "Low-T" ads are really scary because I doubt the usual family doctor patient will undergo the careful monitoring that hormone therapy requires.

 

[Larry Roseman]

Not to belittle but finding a way to socialize with women you find attractive will do a lot for your T level, even if you are married

and can't do anything about it. And even if you find your wife attractive. It's the idea of the hunt that gets the juices going.

It's the all natural approach. And it develops social skills. 

 

That said, I don't know my T level and don't care. However, if I wanted to raise it, that's what I'd do.

Many risks with HRT: not just small testes but heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc!

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Geeeee......... the use of paragraphs ought to be compulsory!

That was a terrifying wall of text!

[Patrick McDonnell]

Geeeee......... the use of paragraphs ought to be compulsory!

That was a terrifying wall of text!

Sorry. Here is a good link from the Cleveland Clinic which explains the whole program pretty well:

http://www.ccjm.org/content/79/11/797.long

[David Birchall]

Not to belittle but finding a way to socialize with women you find attractive will do a lot for your T level, even if you are married

and can't do anything about it. And even if you find your wife attractive. It's the idea of the hunt that gets the juices going.

It's the all natural approach. And it develops social skills. 

 

That said, I don't know my T level and don't care. However, if I wanted to raise it, that's what I'd do.

Many risks with HRT: not just small testes but heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc!

I agree with this.  

 

I asked my doctor if the levels could ever just rise on their own if I was stimulated enough but he said basically no lol.  However I can definitely attest to testosterone increasing from being around attractive females all the time.  In my first year at university I lived with a load of really really fit girls (who all thought I was gay because I would never go all the way because I was too scared to try because I knew about my condition).

 

I was having tests done at that time that were around 7 to 9nmol Testosterone which is still low as hell but the tests I had done when I was living with my parents were never more than 2nmol.

 

Man I wish I could go back to university now I am finally being treated for my low T   actually... I could do that... I just might haha