Seminar: Prices - Terms - Sharing

GB Seminar Types

3 Day Seminar

-6 modules

- Scottsdale

- AU?

2 Day Seminar

- 4 modules

- Int'l

- US outside Scottsdale

1 Day Workshop

- 2 modules

- US outside Scottsdale

1/2 Day Workshop

- 1 module

- Scottsdale

Pricing

Pricing to Summer 2013:

3 day  - $999

2 day - $669 / $539 SEB / $599 EB

1 day - $339 / $269 SEB / $299 EB

1/2 day $199

Pricing after Summer 2013: 

3 Day - $1,199  / $959 SEB / $1,079 + H1 & F1 or F1-4

2 Day - $799 / $639 SEB / $719 EB + H1 & F1 or F1-4

1Day - $399 / $319 SEB / $359 EB + Appropriate Courses

1/2 Day - $199 / $159 SEB / $179 EB + Appropriate Courses

Special Seminar Pricing: (to be added SEB and EB)

3 day - $1,499

2 day - $999

1 day - $599

Discounting

Applies only to second party hosted seminars

Super Early Bird (SEB)

- 5 months prior

- 20% discount (rounded)

Early Bird (EB)

- 2 months prior

- 10% discount (rounded)

Should we consider an SEB option for Scottsdale?

Cancelation Terms

- Cancelations more than 60 days prior to seminar / workshop

Refund -10% Cancelation Fee

( 3d -$100 / 2d - $70 / 1d - $35 / .5d - $20 )

- Cancellations within 60-30 days of seminar / workshop

Refund - 20% Cancellation Fee w proof of illness (or emergency?) only

( 3d -$200 / 2d - $140 / 1d - $70 / .5d - $40 )

- Cancellations within 30-14 days of workshop

Refund minus 40%

- Cancellations within 14 days of workshop

NO refund

Revenue Sharing

Current - comparing GB's to Kit's

Students : Split GB : Split Kit Laughlin (Split = Host/GB)

12 : 10/90 : 10/90

13-14 : 15/85 : 15/85

15-17 : 20/80 : 25/75

18-23 : 25/75 : 35/65

24-30 : 30/70 : 40/60 

This proposed sliding scale has what I believe to be a major flaw.

- When the host percentage jumps, GB actually makes less money.

i.e. If 23 people attend GB earns apx $8,700 vs $8,500 if 24 people attend

- Also the industry standard split is 30/70, if we are to use a sliding scale, I believe with high attendance it should top the standard, as Kit's does.

In order to keep GB share always increasing, the sliding scale needs to be buffered.

Below is a proposed alternative which always keeps GB's share increasing.

Revised Super Sliding Scale

Attendees : Host %

12 (minimum)-13 : 10% + One staff member may attend free of charge

14 : 14%

15-16 : 16%

17-18 : 18%

19-20 : 20% + Two free staff @ 20

21 : 22%

22 : 24%

23 : 26%

24 : 28%

25-30 : 30%

30+ : add 1% per person to 40% + Three free staff

40+: 40% +  Four free staff

Free staff do not count towards totals

Terms

1) Percentages are calculated AFTER expenses

Expenses include:

- Travel costs, both flight and major local transportation costs.

In the event of multiple seminars on the same tour, expenses will be shared

- Accommodation

- Food allowance $75 per day

2) Registration and Payment for seminars/workshops will be made through the Gymnastic Bodies website

3) Host is encouraged to promote the event

GB can provide

- posters

- images for web pages

- links to GB website for registration and payment

- links to your website via our event promotion

In-Seminar Level Testing

- This makes sense to do!

- Depending on how Coach decides if/to integrate it into the seminars may not always be possible

e.g. The London facility we are pursing has a very tight schedule, any testing would have to be during the allotted time

- We may need to set it up so Level Testing only happens in AZ or designated seminars

- We would need up to date records of where testers are already at etc

Some recommendations if we do this

- Have testers sign up prior to the workshop on the GB website

- Because this will be some work, better to keep the fee, and filter out the riffraff

- As Nic suggested, better we separate this testing from putting people in groups for the various modules

- We will need a robust record keeping solution or else online and seminar testing will quickly get out of sync

Sorry this is a massive set of posts.

The most important things to discuss right now, so I can set up the London seminar, are

- Pricing

- Revenue Sharing

I'm reading all of it

Seminar testing not available at every one makes sense. Logistically it is just not going to fit at all venues.

Record keeping is a must. Overall a spreadsheet can easily be used to keep up, it's getting the paperwork from the seminar to whomever is maintaining the record.

- Multiple attendance discounts AND giving revenue sharing to the host seems to lower the rate of return on seminars and workshops to the point that I would not be interested in pursuing them.  

What am I missing?

- The proposed new super sliding pricing structure is very good. (Cory, I am feeling the need for an emoticon with a superman S!) (http://zaazu.com/1040-Superman-Superman-man-of-steel-Clark-Kent.html)

- The early bird and super early bird schedules are very good.  The long range nature should make our scheduling much easier to fill.

- cancellation fees of 10% and 20% are good.  However I believe that requiring proof of illness will just force them to lie to us.  

- But again with commission to a certain seminar coordinator   and revenue sharing to the host and staff costs (for when I am not traveling) and then travel expenses;  to allow the revenue sharing to increase to 40% seems as though we have whittled our own profit margin down too far to be worthwhile.

Thoughts?

Are we low balling the cost / worth of the seminars? Look at what DD charges. Granted they do use a large staff for the seminars but still...

What are dragondoor's prices for the various kettlebell certs and the new one with kavadlo?

Standard RKC is $2,695 for for three day seminar. Up to $1,000 off for the early bird specials $300 cancellation fee.

PCC (Kavadlo) is $1,995 for 3 days. Unsure of what the early bird discount was here, same cancellation fee applies.

Any cancellation must be greater than 30days out from the seminar date.

Typicall DD weekend has one lead instructor maybe 2 and then 4-5 team leaders. Those are all paid staff. The asstant intructors are unpaid using the weekend for renewals. Granted the groups are larger then what we are looking at, just putting the information out there.

How does GB Seminar quality compare to DD weekends?

- Interesting.

- If we went with a dragondoor style price structure, how do we keep the seminar numbers up?  Is it simply more efficient marketing?

- The dragondoor numbers do work much better with Cole's preference of continuing to multiple attendance discounts along with the revenue sharing.  Even if someone was all the way down to 75% off for having attended 3 or more.

- Kit's numbers are however much lower and his seminars are his bread and butter with many repeat workshops hosted year after year. Some for over 10 years in a row now.

Now you're giving me a loaded question!

Obviously I jumped ship and left my RKC/SFG work behind to come here. The approaches are different. The RKC was quite regimented and almost militaristic in nature. Less inviting and fun IMO. There was a good amount of supervision with the size of the staff to offer feedback. Both offer challenges for the attendees to overcome, gain confidence and walk away feeling like they accomplished something. GB has an enormous edge with mobility work, this added dimension is HUGE for much of the population. I also think the information is more unique and more diffcult to find, especially of this quality.

GB also offers a more balanced approach for a healthier body I feel also.

Being fairly new in the market where we are behind is brand recognition and sense of community beyond the forums. This step does take time. Little things that get the brand name out there start to add up.

Dragondoor markets like mad with both mailings and email. The other side of that is the instructors have to be selected to be assistants so your higher levels certs and even some of the people in the lower level ones are instructors paying to be recertified. They are taking money from their own people there.

Wow, good for Kit. Value does go a long way also. How many seminars and how much travel we willing to commit to make a profit margin on lower valued models? The answer I am sure is in the middle. Also cost does tend to increase over time as popularity increases.

Nic

- How many people are attending a typical DD seminar?

- How many hours a day?

- Do people think the pricing is fair

- What kind of people attend? Are they all fitness professionals?

The groups can be pretty large 60ish people.

8:30am to 6:30 pm with lunch break.

Never heard any complaints really. They admit it is an investement.

Prolly 60-70% are professionals.

Coach

- In Helsinki you said you were going to phase out the discounts for attending multiple seminars.

- In all of the workshops I've arranged, there has never been question as to the hosts being comped the workshop. I'm just putting a number on it so things don't get carried away. However, that number is open to discussion, we could end it at 2. Naturally they wouldn't count towards the revenue sharing. 

I.e. If 25 people attended, and two were staff, GB would give them the 23 person percentage.

This is good for building relationships, I favour working with places multiple times as well.

- I was somewhat torn between a max of 35% or 40%, we could adjust that so we cap at 35%, with a 1% jump every other person after 30 or if that still doesn't work profit margin wise, 30% and call it a day

- I think as GB grows, and we have the full line of products out plus GB certified coaches, we could look into raising the price of the seminars

- I'm not sure when the time to do that would be, or if we should do it incrementally and what it's impact on attendance would be.

- I would tend to favour keeping the seminar prices a bit lower than DD's and using Certification and related professional training to create another revenue stream. I wouldn't want to make the seminars inaccessible to 'regular' people. 

- I'd also like Cory's views on this

Nic, I should have asked, are there many repeat attendees.

With the GB format, i see repeat attendance as an important target

60 is a healthy size group all right something to think about 

I agree on staying under DD in pricing. Especially while trying to grow, prices must fit with growth.

When I did advanced level seminars I did see people again fro previous ones yes.

Growth really is the first priority.

What is strongfirst's new pricing structure? I heard that it was lower than dd.

One day seminars for non-professional or your average trainers are 300-350 for an 8 hour day.

Certification seminars are 3 days and around 1200-1300 depending on location.

Strongfirst also now has a deal with the NASM where the 8 hour course can count for CEU's also.

Nic Branson said:

Strongfirst also now has a deal with the NASM where the 8 hour course can count for CEU's also.

NASM? ewwww. 

- So SF is just a small bump higher than our pricing. I could see us adjusting the GB seminar to $1,200-$1,300

- Nic, what kind of venues are DD and/or SF using? Are they arranging there own venues or are they working with existing facilities and doing a split similar to what we are looking at?

- There would be no easier way to save apx 30% then find rental facility's when possible.

- Rental fee for Helsinki was apx €300 plus one and a half staff members