RatioFitness Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 This is interesting because one of the mechanisms for intermittent fasting's effects on longevity is the time you spend not ingesting protein. http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/protein-through-the-life-cyle/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Domz, do you have peer-reviewed links for the IGF-1 claims regarding the action of plant and animal proteins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 However, given the recent literature indicating that high intake of protein rich in essential amino acids (animal or soy protein) may increase IGF-1, it may be prudent for men with early stage prostate cancer not to exceed dietary protein recommendations.From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17571965 So you see people eating a crapton of vegetables, and all of a sudden everyone assumes it's the soy protein that makes the difference? Not the complete lifestyle change, not the exercise, not the vegetables and associated protective phytochemicals, but the plant protein? Come on. A more balanced and intelligent conclusion, PLEASE. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I will definitely say, of course, that this may be an area where maximum performance and maximum longevity diverge at a certain intake level, but take research like this with a grain of salt... controlling your insulin and making sure your exposure to phytonutrients (via tons of vegetables) is high are the two most surefire ways to safeguard your long term health, nutritionally. That needs to be combined with exercise for truly great results, but we're on an athletic website... I'm pretty sure no one here is going to whine about that I think there needs to be a side-by-side comparison of supermarket meats and truly naturally raised meats, and the results need to be stratified by meat/animal protein product, with no other intervention strategies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaudius Petrulis Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'd rather have more steaks and check out at 85 than starve myself and check out at 90 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDERIC DUPONT Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'd rather have more steaks and check out at 85 than starve myself and check out at 90 LOL, it is safe to guess you are not 84 yet... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I don't disagree, but things like this remind me of the whole cholesterol and saturated fat merry-go-round. We now know that individual fatty acids have very different effects, but this is by no means common knowledge even among doctors. Dude, excellent links BTW. I love the Oxford research especially. That is pretty neat, and definitely shows a 10% variation. When I look at the data tables for the means, one thing that I noticed was that the means for both IGF and The interactive effects of a healthy lifestyle are far-reaching and extremely complex. Having said that, I am well aware of the threat that IGF-1 represents in terms of activating benign tumors... this is why I always recommend to people that they never, never consider using HGH. The reason I mentioned insulin earlier is that it has a huge moderating effect on the binding proteins that respond to diet, and truly useful future research is going to need to take this into account. We need to see what happens when we put people on slow carb diets, slow carb + lots of veggies, test both with resistance training protocols, record the results, and THEN start playing around with protein source. In fact, a quote from the discussion section of the first link: "Another mechanism through which a vegan diet may influence IGFBP-1 levels is via an enhanced insulin sensitivity. A diet low in saturated fat and high in dietary fiber and complex carbohydrates may reduce insulin secretion, both directly by reducing the postprandial glycaemic response (39 , 40) , and indirectly by reducing adiposity (41) , causing a large increase in the production of IGFBP-1 within the liver (42) ." We may find out that there are certain animal meats that just represent an unnecessary risk, but we may also find out that, when insulin is controlled properly through both diet and exercise, protein source ends up playing a relatively minor role. I don't know, but I am encouraging everyone to keep in mind that there are very rarely any strict controls on any of these lifestyle factors in studies, and that we need to start seeing interactive research that delves into more holistic protocols. Our bodies are complex, and have highly inter-dependent systems. It is a little unreasonable to expect to find the real/ideal solution to problems like these by looking at just one factor. There could be other systems that, when properly stimulated (like the insulin mentioned earlier), completely over-ride the effects of protein sourcing. I am also not sure that a 13% difference is anything to freak out about, because we used to think the same thing about testosterone and prostate cancer, but guess what... the more data we get, the more it looks like endogenous testosterone has no effect on prostate cancer at all, though it's possible that higher endogenous levels actually have a protective effect. It does appear that hormone replacement therapy could increase the risk, but so does supplemental vitamin E. The 50% difference in the IGFBH 1 is much more interesting... that may be much more tied to the EAA content of protein. I would still like to see what happens, at least with a small group, when keeping the protein the same but altering carbohydrates, vegetable intake, etc. I think that would be very telling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaudius Petrulis Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 LOL, it is safe to guess you are not 84 yet... Some days I am.. some days.. especially after the 5th day of F1 training.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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