Too Many Doubts

Joshua Naterman said:

(...) our removal of intestinal parasites from our guts has left us far more vulnerable to all kinds of inflammatory issues (which includes, to some degree, nearly every medical problem there is)?

(...) we are all pretty out of touch with what the true "ground state" of the human body throughout history has been. Something small, like avoiding even a few hookworms, may have severely compromised our health. Same goes for other pathogenic exposures

This is very interesting Joshua, could you link to some source on that point?

I think that Todd Hargrove talks about something very similar in this article about The Comfort Hypothesis:

(...) There is some similarity in logic between the two ideas. The pain alarm system is part of the immune system. It evolved in a situation in which one of the major players, the skin, was constantly receiving minor amounts of nociceptive input. We know that nociceptive or other sensory input in one area of the body will affect pain levels in other parts of the body. And counterirritation is a technique for pain relief that involves using an externally applied substance, such as capsaicin, to causes irritation and mild inflammation of the skin, for the purpose of relieving pain in other areas, such as muscles or joints.

Is it possible that a radical reduction in the amount of this peripheral low level nociceptive input to the skin can somehow cause disregulation of the pain alarm system, perhaps causing it to focus excess attention inappropriately in other areas? Perhaps this is a contributing factor (not the sole factor of course) in conditions such as allodynia, complex regional pain syndrome or fibromyalgia. Or perhaps it is involved in other more common forms of chronic pain such as low back pain or joint pain.

I other words, stop showering, sleep on straw & wear jute garments & you'll feel so much better!

No blanket statement intended - it was just something I found interesting from someone who seems to have helped a lot of people.

I think you can make it as complex or as simple as you want.  I just see no benefits to filling up on grain rather than just eating more meat, veggies, berries etc.

Josh, glad your friends found good doctors.  My friends were told to eat processed food since that's easier to digest and just continue taking their prescription drugs.

CraigR: HAHAHA! Oh, the fail. Well, doctors don't study nutrition... yet. I am sure that the author's experience is, unfortunately, not even remotely uncommon.

Fred: search google for the "old friends hypothesis." Also, perhaps a search on "GMP intestinal parasite FDA phase 3 trials"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.menshealth.com%2Fhealth%2Fimmune-system-worms%3Ffullpage%3Dtrue&ei=lTIRUeDoK5T68QTBnIEQ&usg=AFQjCNFtcDkbCYVYYsfd9O8kc0XL5D0KbQ&bvm=bv.41867550,d.eWU

there's the first result. It's a good read, and a good introduction.

I can't say much about the sensory input, other than the fact that there's a lot of science showing that exposure to a wide variety of stimuli is very good for us. Movement, tactile sensations, etc, are all important.

Mucho Gusto AK87. You confusion is really common. A lot of people struggle with this stuff. It's too bad that we've "advanced" so far that we've forgotten how to eat.

I think that when we talk about nutrition we can get lost quickly. In fact, I think that the discussion of which nutrients you need is not the best discussion. I think that a bigger point is that you should learn a few basic cooking techniques and prepare your own food. If you learn how to quickly chop veggies and prepare meat and other whole ingredients you will almost certainly be healthy and able to get adequate nutrition. If you area already doing this, you are probably fine.

I'd recommend getting a good cook book that covers the basics, like how to chop an onion, how to braise meat. If you learn these skills and use them, you are likely to end up with a fairly balanced diet without too much brain damage.

If, on the other hand, you try to keep up with the constantly changing list of nutrients that you need and the always-growing list of diets that will help you build muscle or lose weight or build muscle and lose weight or cure acne or cause the sun to rise in the west you will end up crazy.

This thread had gone gangbusters with a really good discussion, but it may be adding to your confusion at this point. I'd point back to posts #6 and #7 as having some really good suggestions.

InRe milk: I don't promote eliminating any particular whole food, milk included. I think milk is OK, but the idea that it is a "healthy" food is a stretch. The milk industry has spent a ton of money funding research and even more money promoting the results of this research. Industry funded research should be approached with a lot of caution. You will have a difficult time finding independent, peer-reviewed research showing that milk a) makes typical people healthier or b builds muscle.

I'm not anti-milk. In fact, I grew up on dairies, milked cows and still consume a ton of yogurt and cheese. I'd just say that you probably shouldn't spend much time worrying about whether or not you need milk. If you enjoy a glass, fine. If you don't like it there are plenty of other foods that can give you the same nutrition.

I'm also not anti-supplement... I use whey protein regularly. I just think that supplements should be limited to a supporting role. It can be difficult for people who exercise regularly, for example, to get enough protein from whole foods. A protein shake can help save some time, plus there is independent research which shows that it can aid recovery. It's not necessary, but it's a great support tool.

Finally, I'd recommend a book called "In Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan. It's written for people who want to eat well but aren't sure what that means anymore. I see you're writing from Spain and so I'll assume your first language is Spanish (sorry if that is wrong). Here is a Spanish translation of the book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/El-detective-supermercado-dejarte-publicidad/dp/8484607666 . For the record, I have no financial interest in this book. I just think it's one of the best books about food. I believe that you read it, you will feel a lot better.

I can't get rid of that damned emoticon. It is supposed to be a simple "b"

Thank you for the link and pointers Joshua - I find that fascinating!

Okay by no means I am an expert and everything written down here is very interesting and made me think.
But the one thing that bugs me is the whole Paleo idea.

First of all: I'm on the side of Paleo and I have Robb Wolf's book written on the subject it seems very logical and well tought out but still many people is againts it and I think many of them couldn't manage to get the idea. ( I would love to hear you arguments about the following statements)

a, The Paleo Diet is not really based on what our ancestors really eat rather it is about what naturally would be available for us.

b, It does not bans everything but the foods that cannot be digested/ hard to digest in its original form (like grains, they peel the outer layer but still, its not very good for digestion)

c, It tries to balance out our nutrient ratios, mainly the fat-carb ratio because fats do not induce an insulin spike thus you do not store fat ( a common misconcepcion - fat does not make you fat neccescarily, only in excessive amounts, and with this we arrived to our next argument), AND the carbs in veggies have a MUCH lower glycemic index so they are not causing elevated insulin levels also. (unlike the products of agriculture)

d, You really cannot count your calories because the body is a complex system. Make yourself MOVE and eat as much as your body really calls for.

So what do you guys think? I reckon that this is the way we should head for just needs a little polish.

The Paleo Diet started out great then slowly people got away from the main point. Remove processed crap and eat real food. But now everyone with paleo associates it with low carb, all real carbs, certain macro nutrients in certain amounts, ect. The fact that people begin asking, "Is this Paleo?" rather than "Is this healthy for me?" is where it's going from a good movement to a dogma that is only slightly better than the current 300 grams of carbs per day.